Engine won't start |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21108 |
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I would be leery of characterizing post position as something consistent from engine to engine... It can be in as many positions as there are distributor teeth, basically 360deg. If the dizzy has ever been out it's anyone's guess. I would be surprised if PCM always installed them the same (though anything is possible). I sure wouldn't count on it in any case. 180 out will sputter and backfire occasionally- but it will not run (even poorly). If you're 180 out AND use the wrong firing order (18456273 vs 18736245), it will run on 4cyl. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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Reasoning for putting #1 @ 1 is to minimize plug wire length (and a cleaner looking routing). As an engine manufacturer/marinizer I would think this is not a detail overlooked.
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Very true Tim, Don't ask me how I know. Was in a hurry last month. That was after I had had it running. Frustrating to do that. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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It has acted like it wants to start, and I had it running at one point, we'll as long as you held key to start and could dump ether/fuel in it, that's when I changed fuel pump then changed carb once new fuel pump was in because carb was leaking
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21108 |
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There is no position that minimizes plug wire length for all 8 wires simultaneously, you will always have about half the wires going to the far side of the dizzy. Even if there is a position that minimizes overall plug length, pcm isn't going to attempt to cost cut materials to a point where the wires won't all reach with the dizzy in any position. Maybe they were consistently putting post #1 in the same spot but it is more likely tied to mistake proofing the firing order when assembling the engine at the factory. I have not noticed this consistency but it's possible... Still wouldn't count on post #1 having an expected position on a 30+ year old engine in any case. :) |
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dgpmerc
Newbie Joined: June-06-2016 Location: BattleGround WA Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Having just converted my 1981 Ski Nautique to a DUI electronic distributor yesterday I can sympathize with getting the distributor set correctly to get the initial start. Even though I thought I was being really careful to get it installed in the same position as the old prestolite, I was still off by enough to prevent it from starting right up.
Do you know what brand of EI is installed? If it's a Pertronix or the DUI, you should be running the full 12 volts to the distributor, so the ballast resistor should not be used. I would check that first. Running the reduced voltage to an EI can cause damage to them. When you attempt to start it does it crank really hard? That could indicate that the timing is too far advanced. Something that helped me quite a bit is getting a timing light on it right from the start and having TDC marked on the balancer really clearly. Even without the engine running the timing light will still flash and give you a reading when cranking. At that point you should be able to get the timing close enough to run (if timing is the issue). When you say it only tries to run when the key is turned on, are you getting voltage to the coil when the key is in the run position? Hopefully some of this will help. I'm a long time lurker but couldn't resist trying to help out. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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Opposite I believe. |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6147 |
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^^
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dgpmerc
Newbie Joined: June-06-2016 Location: BattleGround WA Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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I installed a Pertronix Ignitor years ago and for some reason I remember a warning about running the reduced voltage and the possibility of damaging it.
You are correct that low voltage won't hurt an HEI, but if you try to run 7 or 8 volts to it there is a good chance it won't have enough voltage to work properly. The first thing I would do is determine what distributor is in the boat and figure out what the proper voltage should be. It sounds like the boat sat for 14 years without running so it's hard to determine if it was running well before being put into storage. Once the voltage is correct, then work on getting the timing right. |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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When key is run position there is no voltage at coil only during cranking. Not sure on type of ei was done, I'm assuming pertronix. Not sure on distributor type, it is a crew down type cap. The resistor is not bypassed and I'm assuming the boat was running fine before it sat
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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That would be the starter solenoid wired wrong then check and see if the other small stud on the solenoid is hot when the key is on. This is a diagram from a car- should be close
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6147 |
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If the coil gets power cranking but not running position it's a bad ignition switch. Seen it quite often. You let off the key when you hear it fire and it kills ignition power.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I think the way it's set up now is to provide a full 12v to the coil to aid in starting.When the key is released it takes the voltage from the resistor and runs the coil at the lower voltage. If you were to run a temp wire from the battery to the coil direct and try to start it,it should then stay running,you could try this to confirm
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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My solenoid only had 2 battery cables and one other stud wired labeled S. When I replaced solenoid I wired it same way, in your diagram it shows wire off I going to coil? Do I need to run another wire?
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6147 |
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Good call. Someone could have ran a jumper from the 12v cranking pole on the starter solenoid. Likely the switch is bad either way unless the coil supply wire lost continuity or the ballast resistor gave up the ghost.
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6147 |
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No, that confirms your ignition switch is likely bad.
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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It is a new ignition switch. And when I test for continuity it test good
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I would find the wiring diagram for your year first and check your wiring first. It could be like Zack says but I wonder if the EI was installed and it went downhill since.Someone gave up and it sat? I sure seems these ei conversions cause more trouble than the points ever have
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6147 |
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So you tested the ignition pole on the back of the switch ?
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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Clearly this is a problem. |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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How many ohms should ballast resistor be?
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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yeah go back and read Zachs last response -- after you check the ignition post on the back of the switch you can start worrying about ballast resister ohms and what nots |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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OK. Tested the ignition switch and it's good, it was wired backwards. Voltage at coil while in run is 4.7, while cranking it drops to 2.4 volts. With switch in run voltage at one side of resistor is 11.2 and 6 on other
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Chris,
Those voltages are low. What are you getting at the battery? |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Getting 12.5 volts at solenoid
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
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Ahh now we're zeroing in on the problem. It wasn't mentioned that the switch was changed.
OP said the wiring was checked and good from dash back. Hang in there we'll get it figured out. |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Correct I only checked for continuity on wires going from dash back to motor originally. Ignition switch is now wired correctly.
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spiralhelix
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2014 Location: IL/WI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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With it wired correctly does that mean the boat is now starting?
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Seen it once on my SS |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Boat still not starting but ignition is wired properly. Still have low voltage at coil tho.only 5 volts with key in run position but drops to 3 during cranking, doesn't make sense to me. I have 12v at solenoid, 12v to resistor and 5v leaving resistor going to coil
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