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MTK Monster tower on Sport Nautique

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    Posted: July-17-2016 at 3:14pm
I'm installing a Monster MTK tower on my '97 Sport Nautique. Since this tower has a short span front to back I was interested in any advice on backing plates to distribute load. I have already removed the float foam on the back side in the area where a back plate would be.
Questions:
Length of plate? I was thinking about 40" total and about 3" wide
Material? Pressure treated wood or go for aluminum? Wood is easier to make a 40" 3" strip out of and will likely make less pressure points on the glass's uneven surface but could get soft over time? Marine plywood? Go through the trouble of making an aluminum plate?

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Adam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-17-2016 at 11:21pm
I would say the longer the better. so whatever you can fit would probably be good. But you mentioned today about a piece of 1/4 aluminum and i was thinking about it on the way home and you really want something that not only going to spread the load over a larger area but something with some rigidity to it. because a piece of 1/4" AL isn't going to spread the load much more than an few inches out. longer than that the extra material is not really doing much.
But a piece of channel or angle, or T would be stronger.

channel
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-aluminum-u-channels/=13bvd79
T
http://www.mcmaster.com/#aluminum-t-bars/=13bvddw

I would like to add I have never mounted a wakeboard tower. But i would have to think there has got to be some crazy forces at the base of that style tower vs a standard 4 legged tower.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-18-2016 at 4:41am
Originally posted by BaccoBouncer BaccoBouncer wrote:

   I was thinking about 40" total and about 3" wide
Material? Pressure treated wood or go for aluminum? Wood is easier to make a 40" 3" strip out of and will likely make less pressure points on the glass's uneven surface but could get soft over time?

Thanks,
Adam

Adam,
The pressure points are important. Whatever you use, be careful to check for high spots. Real high spots can be ground down and then low spots can be filled I would also bed the backup in 3M 5200.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-18-2016 at 7:08am
Those are both really good points.
High spots: That was one of the benefits I was thinking of with using wood. It will conform to the natural shape of the glass somewhat. The 5200 is a great idea as well unless there is another adhesive that is specifically better for permanent wood to fiberglass?

Strength: The channel is a great idea. for keeping the rigidity. I wonder if a composite of a layer of 1/2" pressure treat and then the aluminum channel on top?. Conforms to surface shape but rigid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-18-2016 at 11:23pm
something like west system with a thickening agent would bond wood and glass much better than 5200. 5200/4200 allows for some flex. but in your case where your offering the piece up under the gunwale you only get one shot at getting it right with either adhesives so prep is important.
THIS STUFF
Is the best, and working with it is a pleasure..
And you would be better off using it than wood or metal because it is solid glass. plus it will make a sure bond. you can buy it in all shapes and sizes similar to buying metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2016 at 8:28am
Tony,
WOW! that is a great option. Thank You for doing that research..
Adam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2016 at 8:39am
This stuff is supplied by some tower manufacturers to mount their backing plates under the deck... it should take care of the high and low spot issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2016 at 8:57am
Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:

This stuff is supplied by some tower manufacturers to mount their backing plates under the deck... it should take care of the high and low spot issues.

I had a '93 Honda Accord held together with that stuff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2016 at 7:01pm
So are you suggesting combining the tiger hair with another material like the wood or pre-made fiberglass or just put the tiger hair on super thick?
My first thought is to put the tiger hair on super thick and then put four 1/2" spacers at each corner and put a thin piece of plywood down to hold/mold it in place. it will be a 1/4" layer of reinforced glass the wood will just be there as an artifact from "molding" the glass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2016 at 8:56pm
Adam,
I feel the tiger hair along with an epoxy resin would make an excellent bedding compound for a backer. You wouldn't even need to worry about minor irregularities in the glass, The premade fiberglass shapes that Tony recommended is an excellent choice for a backer. A 5' length of the U channel is plenty to cut up into the 4 pieces needed. You would need to see what width you could get under the gunnels. I'd also use large fender washers on the bottom side.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2016 at 11:40pm
If you have an old chunk of fomica countertop or wax paper works good as a release agent if you plan to lay it up in separate steps. With plywood like you described. I would do it all in one shot with one filler.

What i would probably do in your case is first.
Offer up the tower and get it where you want it. Mark all holes and drill all holes. I know you already masking taped the gel because i saw but leave that on till the end to keep things clean.
Cut the backing plate and pre fit everything. And bolt it in place without super tightening it. And then one side at a time take the plate off, prep the underside of the gunwale and the top of the backer. Poop on a generous amount of whichever adhesive filler you decide on. And bolt it in place and let it set up.
A can of PAM and lightly spray down the hardware so you can remove it once its set. Make sure once its all said and done to re drill the holes to clearance for the hardware because you can get a false tightening on the formed threads and can mess up your fit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2016 at 11:42pm
Also very important if your going to work with the FRP. You have to sand the mating surface well, like with a die grinder before any adhisive will stick because it comes with a smooth kind of finish on it.

Once thats done though that bond is extremely strong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 11:32am
Awesome guys. Thanks!

Totally unrelated. I have this friend who was drilling a hole in fiberglass, using the reverse direction method of course. He slipped and scratched the gel coat when he was starting a hole. What should I tell him to do?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 11:39am
Don't slip?

I'm not quite sure why you guys are so concerned with such a large backing plates. I haven't seen any pull through the deck yet...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 11:43am
The MTK tower has a very narrow stance back to front. It's about a foot or so. Most other towers are more like 5 feet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 11:48am
Seems like a lot of work for such an ugly tower
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 11:58am
It let's me keep the full stock Bimini. I like the large low Bimini the boat has. Better coverage through-out the day. People want to stay out longer if they aren't baking on a hot day. The tower Bimini's all seem very small and high. only good for high noon.
I do like the look of it as well. I feel it doesn't interrupt the flow of the lines of the front of the boat and doesn't make a closed in "in a cage" feeling that I never liked about the regular towers. I like that "open ski convertible" feeling when the Bimini is down. Feels more stock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Don't slip?

.

Yeah he's an idiot. But I'm banging his wife which is nice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 4:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 4:48pm
I totally can't tell if you got the "I have this friend" joke.

Anyway I hear that there are better chances of getting help online if you post the wrong answer to a question instead of the question.

So my friend just scratched the white gel coat on his '97 Sport Nautique. I told him the best way to fix it is with Elmer's glue (cause it's white and should blend in). And to use the old mariners trick of adding saw dust as a filler to strengthen it up. Once it's set he should use a 40 grit sand paper on an 8" power sanding disk to feather it in with the surrounding area. The big plus is that the glue is water based and saw dust (wood) is a material naturally outdoors, so in the rain/water. So they are perfect for a boating application where they may get wet. Never have to worry about it again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 4:53pm
IF its really bad then you would use gel paste to fill it in and then sand and polish it back.. if its not through the color you could probably use 22o, then 400, 800, 1200 wet paper and some polish it buff it out... itll be lower but shiny .. take pictures if you want a better idea of which is appropriate
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

I'm not quite sure why you guys are so concerned with such a large backing plates. I haven't seen any pull through the deck yet...
Originally posted by BaccoBouncer BaccoBouncer wrote:

The MTK tower has a very narrow stance back to front. It's about a foot or so. Most other towers are more like 5 feet.

Due to the short fulcrum from the narrow stance of the legs, I feel the pressure will be high. I would be concerned with gel damage rather than structural damage.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 6:20pm
The gel is on the top right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 7:22pm
i think the point of the structural reinforcement is to ensure there are no gel cracks. It's the high stress points that will create the cracks. Spread the load out and it's lower all around.
It's like when I'm really stressed, if I yell at a bunch of people to spread the stress around I feel better and am less likely to crack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2016 at 11:32pm
Sounds like i need to learn this structural reinforcement a little better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2016 at 10:03am
I finished the tower and modified my cover to fit and tent on it from two points.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2016 at 10:34am
do you have a v-drive trailer?

i seriously cannot get over that scum line
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote halfnelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2016 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

do you have a v-drive trailer?

i seriously cannot get over that scum line


Haha, the lake I grew up in in MA was the same way. We used to just get a few people to sit on one side and spray the other side with On and Off. It instantly removes it, but it'll come back in a few weeks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2016 at 11:38am
Why so far back like that?? I am afraid if you tow her past any mirrored glass she is going to pull her own plug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaccoBouncer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2016 at 3:01pm
I put the tower that far back because I want to keep the large and low stock Bimini. I don't see the point in the ones that go with the towers. They are smaller and high up. Unless it's high noon I don't see how anyone is getting shade. I usually have the Bimini up. I like the look over all with the Bimini up or down. I actually feel it preserves the lines of the boat as best as can be done.   It's different than the bird cages that are common. I lined up the projection of the windshield line with the tower top, similar to a good roll bar or the back of a targa hoop where your mind fills in the invisible roof line connecting them. The other plus is that if I (or someone else) ever decided to remove it the hole pattern and location is perfect for making teak step plates.
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