'80 SN 351w RR performance upgrades |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
EagleEyedOne
Newbie Joined: July-25-2016 Location: Manchester, NH Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: July-28-2016 at 2:29pm |
Hi, (Thanks CCF.com for a great forum)
Just bought a refurbed '80 Ski Nautique very nicely redone about 10 years ago with engine overhaul 4 years ago. First owner SN and during first week somehow overheated the engine during normal operation and have a knock now. Raw water impeller is good and 160 deg thermostat also good on the stove test. Jury is still out on root cause of overheating. don't have much history from previous owner, other than I never had any problems... Long and short, need to rebuild or buy long long block. Was considering the following performance upgrades to get more RPM's out of the engine for more top speed for reverse rotation 351w with firing order 18456273 and 1:1 Velvet drive tranny: * roller cam with marine grind * roller rockers * GT40P heads * aluminum intake * already has newer Holley 600 marine carb * already has newer Mallory marine distributor Called a long block supplier and he says can't get too 'radical' with a RR roller cam due to reversion and can't get full benefit of GT40P heads with normal marine cam. The 1:1 tranny and and 4 blade prop tops at roughly 40-42 now. Any thoughts CC Fans!? I want reliable solid running engine with no issues. Need it to idle well and low enough through no wake river I spend a bit of time on. Thanks! |
|
phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
A properly tuned 240 horse in a2 80 ski should be running closer to 48-49 MPH.
You don't need a cam big enough you would need to worry about reversion. That comes into play on engines that used collector style headers and huge duration and overlap cam selections. That engine should have a 143 degree thermostat. The dizzy and the carb should be fine. If you don't want to blow a ton of cash on a roller cam a cam research camshaft and the rest of those parts should be good for 325 HP and 51-53 mph or so. Go over the cooling system with a fine tooth comb. Replace all the hoses and confirm all of the fittings aren't smashed or boogered up on the ends. For good measure install a new raw water filter and either have your RWP rebuilt or replace if you don't have a good way to verify operation. |
|
JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
There are dozens of threads on it around here, you have found the first limit which is the lack of great cam choices. A roller would be spectacular but in reverse rotation its going to need to be a custom job and it would cost more than most will bite. That being said some 1.7 roller rockers have been known to wake up a stock cam. The gt40p heads are a no brainer they yield actual horsepower and are not much more expensive than rebuilding stock heads. After that an intake helps... that gets you through the easy stuff. A good acme 540 propeller will yield the biggest bang for the buck in terms of performance increase with your boat which was not running real great at n40-42, 45-47 would be more correct for a stock 80. The above should have you in the 50+ range done well.
|
|
EagleEyedOne
Newbie Joined: July-25-2016 Location: Manchester, NH Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Well, this is good news Mr. phatsat67!
I've already put a new impeller in RWP and bearings seemed good. Reassembled thermostat housing without thermostat to make sure engine was getting cool unrestricted water which it is. Don't know if fluke stuck thermostat or other issue but certainly will heed advice to nit pick the cooling system and lines. Will reinstall 143 deg tstat with new engine. Appreciate the response and confirmation that my new toy should be able to reach 50... YES! |
|
phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Good luck with it. It'll be a screamer when re assembled.
I am considering the same power upgrade as I have one externally cracked head. Reluctant to pull it apart as it runs so well. |
|
gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Since you say you spend a lot of time idle in a no wake zone I would expect an air leak in the suction side of the water pickup.
50+ and 325hp with GT-40p heads is a little tall. With the above performance enhancers I'd say more in the 300-310hp range and 49/50 mph as I have an '85 with that setup. Zach get some JB weld on that head and run it...ask me how I know |
|
phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Paul,
Been that way all summer ha. No leaks. Cracked half moon shapes below two exhaust ports. I attribute it to high hours and the heads being used in brackish water for 4 years or so. Castings have somewhere between 1600-1800 hours on them. |
|
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21115 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Paul, I would bet 310hp is close with your set up. With similar flow and smaller chambers than your do0e's, the P heads should be good for a point of compression and another 15hp. I think that should be good enough to flirt with the 50mph mark on an early 2001.
|
|
EagleEyedOne
Newbie Joined: July-25-2016 Location: Manchester, NH Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Guys, thanks for the responses, finally able to get back to responding.
JoeinNY, nice ride and holeshot video!! I've got an ACME 208 13X12.5V RH 1" 4-blade prop. Could this be some of the reason for the lack of top end speed? You're recommending an ACME 540 3-blade. After a little research including your thought, I'm finding that the 3 blade is a better fit for my 1:1 drive setup, although being told that an OJ 4-blade 13X13 is stock for my boat and offers less rooster in the wake and relatively same performance at $120+ bucks more than 540 at $375.... I'm installing 1.7 Scorpion roller rockers on GT40P heads and have PCM exhaust manifolds, any recommendations on taller valve covers that don't interfere with exhaust manifolds? Any thoughts here would be mucho appreciated. Thanks! |
|
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21115 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
If you went with 1.7 crane/fms rockers, chances are better that they'd it under stock vc's.
Zach has reported that the 208 is a pancake acme, and thus a good slalom prop. It's lack of rake plants the nose and flattens the wake a little. It will slow the boat down vs a 540 by a few mph. I have a 3-blade 13x13 OJ around as a spare and it's an ok prop, but I would never buy one new. 540 is superior. |
|
halfnelly
Senior Member Joined: January-14-2013 Location: Maitland, FL Status: Offline Points: 253 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I can confirm the FMS/Crane 1.7s fit under the red PCM aluminum valve covers, but the baffles need to be modified and I used some 5/16" valve cover gaskets for more clearance. I believe the steel ones have more room, my aluminum ones were really low. Gaskets |
|
phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
208 is a fabulous slalom prop on a 2001 hull. The wake is noticeable just by watching in the mirror. Performance is much much softer all around than the 540. As an example my boat ran 43.xx with the 208 and 46.xx with the 540. Scrubbed about the same rpm off the tach as well.
|
|
EagleEyedOne
Newbie Joined: July-25-2016 Location: Manchester, NH Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks for the great feedback!
It's getting real now, just got the short block, GT40P heads, RPM AirGap intake, CRC holeshot cam, and other goodies! Getting ready for assembly. Now that things are being removed, noticed the mufflers look original, any reason to consider upgrading exhaust to either stock new or something a bit higher performing? Recommendations? Will summarize the full project in a future post. Thanks. |
|
phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
No, Joe runs stock mufflers on his 500ish HP stroker Ford.
Coming along nicely. |
|
gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The Air Gap is a pretty high intake might have some clearance issues with the engine cover.
|
|
Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2859 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Could the transmission be indexed to run LH? If so, why not change the engine to run Standard (LH) rotation? New cam anyway, right? Just buy a nice, new DUI distributor for LH rotation. New propeller.
Any other components have to be changed out for RH to LH rotation? JQ |
|
Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
|
gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
1980 would be 1:1 tranny, it can be indexed to go lefty but doubt you want to do that. Plenty of discussions on here about turning these boats with a lefty prop.
|
|
EagleEyedOne
Newbie Joined: July-25-2016 Location: Manchester, NH Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thx gun-driver: It is a 1:1 Velvet drive tranny and could be swapped but read/was told the reverse rotation torque of the engine counters the drivers weight keeping the wake even and boat level, and am already committed with RR parts purchased. Also, agree with clearance issue with tilt of the engine, may need a lower profile air cleaner.
Thx too P67, appreciate the note. Not sure I'll be doling out $400 for new pipes if not really necessary. Does anyone have vehicle cross reference info for these marine 351w blocks, specifically for a new oil pan? After a fair amount of research, I ordered exactly what I thought I'd need based on pics and using 81 Bronco specs, and order got cancelled... It's a mid sump pan and having a hard time finding something and would like a new oil pan with new engine and keep existing for future rebuild. Thx... Happy Labor Day weekend, throttles down! Speaking of which.. my Bro has a 93 Sport Nautique that does full speed powerslides like a champ. Can I expect the same from my 80 SN or expect to be thrown from the boat....? Didn't get a chance to test..... |
|
Blamey
Gold Member Joined: August-18-2015 Location: White Plains,NY Status: Offline Points: 631 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It's the prop ration that counters the drivers weight. Engine has minimal effect. That why they were able to switch the Regular Rotation engines in later SN 2001s but kept the prop spinning RH. |
|
96 Super Sport
Previously: 95 Sport Nautique, 1980 Ski Supreme |
|
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Michael, It just may be a mistake in terminology but FYI, it's not an air cleaner as you have mentioned. It's a flame arrestor, a very important piece of ignition prevention and I'd have to say the very first preventative item used on marine engines I just wanted to bring this up since there are "back yarder's out there who have used automotive air cleaners and unknowingly are driving bombs!! |
|
mmasariu
Newbie Joined: April-22-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 39 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
When you say CRC Holeshot cam, what are the specs on that cam? Have you got it assembled and running yet? I am looking for a rr cam for my 351W that I have apart right now.
Thanks. Matt |
|
Matt Masariu
Speedway, Indiana 1987 Dominique |
|
EagleEyedOne
Newbie Joined: July-25-2016 Location: Manchester, NH Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hey Matt,
Here are the notes I took from Scott at Cam Research Corp. He's dubbed it his 'holeshot' cam which has the following specs: * marine grind for reverse rotation * 272 intake * 280 exhaust * 0.460 valve lift * 112 lobe separation He says it should perform with following comments: * gives best of both worlds for improved holeshot and top end speed upgrade from stock * should keep stock fuel economy * He can be reached at 303-762-0022 I just got the short block, cam and other parts about 2 weeks ago and haven't installed anything yet due to work travel. Blamey - Thanks for the clarification update about the prop countering driver weight. 8122.. - Thank you for the correcting my 'mis-write'! I won't have a bomb on my hands... |
|
john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Sounds interesting. This is a slider not a roller correct?
|
|
1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
|
Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You might check with Comp Cams also. They ground my flat tappet cam for my 302 this spring. They have RR blanks in stock. Takes less than a week. About $250 delivered |
|
Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
|
EagleEyedOne
Newbie Joined: July-25-2016 Location: Manchester, NH Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
JohnB - this is not a roller cam.
Duane/Matt - I think I paid $260 for the cam at CRC. |
|
mmasariu
Newbie Joined: April-22-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 39 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks EEO and Duane.
Mine also will be non-roller. Matt in Speedway. |
|
Matt Masariu
Speedway, Indiana 1987 Dominique |
|
mmasariu
Newbie Joined: April-22-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 39 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
While I have everyone's ear, or hopefully anyone's ear, do recommend a particular dealer or site for a rebuild kit? I have an '87 351w rr, and see several kits out there but not sure which mfg's to avoid. Nothing crazy, .30 over, I assume my crank will get .10, so pretty standard stuff. I will probably be picking up a CRC cam, so that obviously wouldn't be needed with the kit. Thanks in advance for the recommendations.
Matt |
|
Matt Masariu
Speedway, Indiana 1987 Dominique |
|
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I see you are in Indiana. Jasper Engines in Jasper Indiana builds a first class engine.
They might be $200. high but I can vouch they build and back a good product. They will work with you for custom changes if needed. They use premium parts and take no shortcuts. I have had guys tell me they are priced a little high but no one ever said they make a bad product. If you want to build this engine yourself it is a good idea to have the Machine Shop order your pistons and bearings. That way if your engine cleans up at .020 over they order the parts, if it cleans at .030 or .040 they are still ordering your parts and responsible to have them there on time and your bore is done to match. Same on the crankshaft. You could order your bearings and find out the crank did not clean up at .010 and needs to be turned to .020. Freight charges for returns can eat up any savings on price really fast. I would stay with known quality brands and avoid some of the low cost import copies that may or may not work. Sealed Power, Mahle, Clevite, Cloyes, Melling, Fel-Pro Speed Pro just to name a few. |
|
EagleEyedOne
Newbie Joined: July-25-2016 Location: Manchester, NH Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi,
Does anyone have a spare prestolite alternator with part number alk 6220Y-1N? I know they're hard to come by and the order I placed earlier today was cancelled. I need something quick if possible. Going on vacation with this boat project finally coming together... thanks for any suggestions! |
|
EagleEyedOne
Newbie Joined: July-25-2016 Location: Manchester, NH Status: Offline Points: 18 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hola,
Got this project back together, ran it most of last summer with no issues as I was still breaking it in. Ran it full throttle in the early Fall for the longest time yet, maybe a minute or so and while nothing happened directly after that run, A few weeks later, the engine liquid locked with water in the cylinders. Pumped the cylinders dry, dried the plugs, fired it up, ran it lightly, then two weeks later, found water in the oil. Been trying to figure out what the $%&@ is goin on since. Any thoughts about where failure is? Put new intake gaskets on suspecting it might have been there, but still suckin water in from somewhere while running in driveway with hose feeding RWP. Ugh. |
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |