04 SANte no-start! 5.7 pcm

I have an 04 SANTE with the 5.7 mpfi and about 550 hours, owned it for 3 years, new plugs then, all other maint up to date, never had any drive-ability, rough running, hesitation, etc before now.

On the lake sunday going through a slow zone, had been out for maybe an hour, engine stalled with no hiccup or any warning. Tried restarting, cranks fine, still no start. Checked the obvious, fuel level per gauge, just filled up 2 days prior, should be plenty, lanyard, loose connections, breakers, fuses, all ok. Went as far as pulling out safety switch and jumped it together. Could clearly smell fuel, both pumps turning on. Pulled plug wires for visual, pulled out one plug, looked fine, some fuel soak tho. cranked at WOT to clear flood, cranked and checked for spark, all ok. No fuel psi gauge at the moment, but some sprayed up when pushing the test port valve, will check actual psi tomorrow. Pulled off dizzy cap and it was very fuzzy and rotor end was pretty black so I used a wire brush to clean them up while stranded, still nothing. Replaced cap and rotor today, no change.... was really hoping that was it.

Dinked around with checking voltages at pumps, tried checking injector pulse, with test light and it stayed on solid on both pins... so no pulse. Cranking voltage ok. Unplugged pretty much every connector to check for the green, all look ok. Now when i crank it I get a MAP sensor fault message in the dash display. Removed that for visual, looks fine i guess.
What am I missing???!!


UPDATE: Fuel psi is good, 55psi @rail and more than 15psi at FCC, both hold steady while cranking. Used a spark tester at plug end and it will not jump the gap. Wont jump it at the coil wire either but if i hold the wire close to ground it does spark. Fuel smell is there but pretty minimal, sure seems like I have no injector pulse, I have available voltage on both terrminals all the time, wish i had a noid light, not sure if test light can check that accurately. Swapped relays around and double checked voltages while cranking and lanyard switch operation. Still have the dash beeping at me and saying MAP sensor, I cant imagine that causing a no start tho. I suppose ill go check compression to rule that out (hopefully)

Really hoping someone can help me out!!

Wow, I certainly cannot think of anything else other then maybe new plugs. Seem to recall the MAP sensor has a screen, filter or something you can clean?? I would also be calling Ski-Dim and maybe even PCM at this point.

From the diagnostic manual, am I reading this correctly, is this how to clear that code w/o the scan tool?:

Clearing Diagnostic Trouble Codes (NonScan)
1. Install Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) tool.
2. Ignition “ON,” engine “OFF.”
3. Switch DTC tool to “service mode” or “ON.”
4. Move the throttle from 0% (idle) to 100% (WOT) and back to 0%.
5. Switch DTC tool to “normal mode” or “OFF.” (If this step is not performed, the engine may not start and run).
6. Turn ignition “OFF” for at least 20 seconds.
7. Ignition “ON,” engine “OFF.”
8. Switch DTC tool to “service mode” or “ON” and verify DTC 12 only. Remove DTC tool. 9. If original DTC(s) are still present, check “Notice” below and repeat the DTC clearing procedure.
10. If new DTC(s) are displayed, perform the OBD system check.

NOTICE: When clearing DTC’s with or without the use of a scan tool, the ignition must be cycled to the “OFF” position or the DTC’s will not clear.

quinner wrote: From the diagnostic manual, am I reading this correctly, is this how to clear that code w/o the scan tool?: Clearing Diagnostic Trouble Codes (NonScan) 1. Install Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) tool. 2. Ignition “ON,” engine “OFF.” 3. Switch DTC tool to “service mode” or “ON.” 4. Move the throttle from 0% (idle) to 100% (WOT) and back to 0%. 5. Switch DTC tool to “normal mode” or “OFF.” (If this step is not performed, the engine may not start and run). 6. Turn ignition “OFF” for at least 20 seconds. 7. Ignition “ON,” engine “OFF.” 8. Switch DTC tool to “service mode” or “ON” and verify DTC 12 only. Remove DTC tool. 9. If original DTC(s) are still present, check “Notice” below and repeat the DTC clearing procedure. 10. If new DTC(s) are displayed, perform the OBD system check. NOTICE: When clearing DTC’s with or without the use of a scan tool, the ignition must be cycled to the “OFF” position or the DTC’s will not clear.

1. where can I find said diagnostic manual?
2. where can I find said DTC tool?

If the motor did not make noise with Ether, starting fluid you have zero spark when needed.
Starting fluid will ignite in environments that gasoline will not even try to ignite in.
IF you have spark it is so far out of time that even Starting fluid will not ignite.
Something is far out of whack.
Warning once more, starting fluid has blown up more engines than you can count. Please be careful.   Some even blow the entire intake manifold off the engine with that stuff. It can be very violent.

You're kinda freaking me out with the starting fluid thing! I mean maybe I did put the rotor on 180* off, I don't think I did but I won't put it past me.... Is there any way to verify the location of it? I didn't see any marks or alignment marks. I just compared it to the old ones location when I put it back on, and it ran great before. Also my little rigged up setup sure seemed to show it spark at the exact time of compression. It's just weird that the boat just died, dead in the water. The only thing I changed is the disi cap and rotor after that because it had obvious corrosion on it..

I am going to put new plugs in tonight because I messed with them, and swap in a new crank sensor from napa and see what happens, maybe ill swap the rotor around to for fun

Do one thing at a time to make sure you are not creating a new problem as you work through this.. Crank sensor failure could certainly kill the engine.

I agree, plugs may help it run smoother but if it ran good with the old ones plugs are not your issue.

new plugs are in and no change as expected.

Ohmed out plug wires, manual says 10k ohms per foot, mine were at about 1k ohms and coil wire was at about 8k ohms. All wires are basically equal from side to side.

I pulled out my MAP sensor and started checking on the table, I made a 5v reference and checked out put of sensor, it definitely was changing output voltage when I sucked or blew it but i could not get voltage to change when checking the air temp side when I ohm out the temp circuit it is right on spec with manual, about 2k ohms at ambient temp, 75*f or so and resistace changed accordingly if it was heated or cooled.

So here is the big favor asking question.... can someone with this engine/MAP sensor check resistances from the sensor pin to pin? I would like to compare my readings with someone elses that is known to be good. I would really appreciate it if someone could help out with that!!

Also one other thing, I put a fuel psi gauge back on the FCC and it read about 50psi, Isn't that supposed to be low side psi, @ 4-7 psi? or does that FCC port not measure the low side?

That is great news Matt and thank's for all the info and feedback.

Yeah Brian, maybe you need to Start a "Poor Man's Excalibur Diagnosis" thread for the rest of us hacks with Excal's :).

Get on it, this thread is a good one to link for sure. Was going to start one however did not want to violate your copyright :)

I have a couple PDF files of the diagnosis manual and a parts catalog that would be nice to include, sent them to Matt via this thread. No idea how to upload a PDF to include though??

Yup, that worked.

If you want to get a thread started, that's ok with me. I'll have some time this weekend, if you haven't started it by then. I'm a little slammed at work right now... which I should probably get back to.

I can get the spreadsheet part started afterwards, once we have a few datapoints to work with.

I posted that up pretty quick last night and kind of blasted through it. I can definitely offer some more specifics and behaviors that I noted along the way. I'd love to contribute my $0.02 because after going through this, I learned what a pain in the ass it was to find a lot of good info or similar situations with others. Honestly, the best info I found as what quinner sent me, that manual is loaded with great info, but there was definitely some I could add and change!