1.23/1 transmission problem. lost reverse |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Posted: September-17-2016 at 7:29pm |
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My 1:23/1 model 40 just lost reverse. Was fine this morning. Went to back up from the dock to pull next skier, and the prop didn't turn. It kinda sounded like the reverse gears were engaged (similar reverse gear wining sounds but different). But no prop rotation in reverse.
Forward gear is fine. Fluid level is fine (top of stick), Shift arm moves almost to stop (and even though I pushed it the rest of the way, it made no difference). It is well adjusted and engages in forward and reverse at about the same shifter position. I know nothing about the innards or operation. If the forward and reverse clutches are different, then perhaps it is the reverse clutch (since I hear the wining sounds of the reverse gear). Has anyone broken down/repaired/rebuilt one of these? If so, are any special tools needed? What would I need besides a clutch pack and gasket kit? What does the damper do and do I need to replace it? If it doesn't take special tools and is fairly straight forward, I might consider doing it myself. Finally, if special tools, etc. are required, is there any place where I can send it for a rebuild (or I send mine back as a "core" and purchase an already completed rebuilt one?. I'm in the San Jose California area. Thanks in advance. Gordon |
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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So, no-one has ever pulled and worked on one of these 1.23:1 trannys? Has anyone tested pressure between forward and reverse?
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Joe in NY is knowledgeable on these.
If I remember correctly, they are not as easy to rebuild as a Borg Warner. I believe parts are only available thru PCM outlets. I would contact PCM to get a list of authorized repair shops & give one a call. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Fantastic Finish Marine in Ohio may be able to do a rebuild or exchange for you, give them a call
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Gordon,
I agree with Chris that parts are only available from PCM and they aren't the easiest to rebuild. See if there's a PCM authorized shop in your area. Your problem could be sheared clutch plates, something busted in the planetary gear set or even a shaft. Opening the trans up is needed for a confirmation. FYI, pressure to ether the forward and reverse clutch packs are the same since they use the same pump. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jody at Florida Inboards would be on my list as well. Chris, Did you ever get in touch with Eric? |
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fgroce
Senior Member Joined: July-05-2016 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 350 |
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Hi do you think that these are harder to rebuild than a F150 4R70W automatic transmission or are parts just not available?
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FGroce
88 Ski Nautique For 28 years Now 2002 Ski Nautique |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Here's a video to a tear down/rebuild of a 1:1 done a few months ago which is quite helpful https://youtu.be/zybPkIhVIMk Biggest issue for me to do it myself is that I don't have a press. If you look at the comments under the video, you'll see an exchange between Mak (the person who did the video) and myself. He suggests that there are separate ports for testing pressure in forward and reverse. Since forward works with no problem but reverse doesn't, he suggests that if pressure in the reverse port is low, then I have a blockage and there might be a way to unclog it (without pulling the tranny out). If it is normal, then it is probably an issue with the reverse clutch pack and I have to pull it out. So I'd like to check/test this before I start pulling it out. What I find "interesting" is that when it is in reverse, I do hear the reverse gears turning (whining), so it seems that at least something is happening, just not everything. I don't know enough about it to understand what happens when you shift into reverse.that would cause me to hear the gears whining but the output shaft not to turn. If the clutches don't engage, would you hear the reverse gear whine? Or what could be "broken"? I know if I go talk to the local CC dealer/shop, they'll say it needs to be pulled/rebuilt or replaced. I want to know it needs a rebuild before I pull it. Thanks. |
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Will ping both in the morning. |
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Do you have Joe's user name, etc. so I can reach out? Thanks, Gordon |
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Here's a video to a tear down/rebuild of a 1:1 done a few months ago which is quite helpful https://youtu.be/zybPkIhVIMk He suggests that there are separate ports for testing pressure in forward and reverse. /QUOTE] Oh, and I can't find these ports he's referring to. All I see is the breather, the cooler return line, and the neutral switch on the top. |
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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It doesn't really matter too much at this point as based on what you report you are going to need to take it apart. Don't mean to ask a stupid question but are you sure the output shaft isn't spinning and your lack of reverse isn't drive shaft key related? Usually if it sounds like its going into gear it is... but if it isn't you are going to need to pull it apart and take a look. As mentioned it is not the most serviceable transmission in the world in that parts are so expensive it becomes quickly cheaper to buy a new or used replacement. That being said.. no harm it taking it apart to see what gives.
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Mountain Man
Senior Member Joined: May-09-2014 Location: Brevard, NC Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Joe:
I sent an email to Pleasurecraft Marine regarding a rebuild for the same transmission and they recommended: Reggie Yarbrough - 864-909-2852. They said he did their work on the PCM transmissions. That number is a couple of years old and may or may not be good. Good Luck! Steve |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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So, long story short, I pulled the tranny and did a teardown. What was wrong is that there is a large gear press-fit into the hub (where the forward clutch pack is). It started to go (started slipping in reverse but not initially in forward). The last test I did before pulling it was to test all of the pressure in the ports for forward, reverse, and neutral. While doing it, forward started to slip.
When the gear slipped, it also damaged a splash guard on another part. While a normal rebuild would cost about $500 in parts (clutch packs and gaskets/seals, etc.), the two damaged parts were another $1,100. I did check with some of the rebuild places; it was around $1,100 and a 12 month warranty assuming no parts broken. But it would have added another $1,100 in additional parts. A new one (it's a new replacement model, model 80) was about $2200 with shipping at SKIDIM after AWSA discount. The tranny is more heavy duty and also includes a new damper plate (heavy duty), a 12" tranny cooler (replacing the 6" one), longer cooler hoses, etc. Got the new one put in and I did an in-water tested today. Good to go skiing! Thanks for everyone's help and comments. Gordon |
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
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I realize that $2K is a lot of ca$h, but a new tranny vs a re-built unit is a good trade-off when the cost is close. You should have many tranny trouble-free years ahead.
JQ |
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Yup. Especially with everything brand new, new warranty, and the fact that it appears to be more robust. Plus that 12" cooler is twice the size of the old one, which I'm excited about. Not to mention that I didn't have to put the new one back together and hope I get everything right..... Also, when I pulled the old tranny, my prop shaft was out a bit (.004-.005) when it's supposed to be .003 or less (always was less than .003). This time I got it down to less than .002. :) |
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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