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Perko FlushPro and Raw Water Strainer

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    Posted: December-08-2016 at 2:11pm
Requesting comments/suggestions on the necessity for and the plumbing arrangement (pictures would be great) of these two items? Boat will be used in fresh water only and winterized annually. Will be pluming an 87SN for next season soon. Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2016 at 3:59pm
Strainer is really a good idea if you run in weedy water, typically they are mounted in the intake line as it comes across the rear of the engine.

Flush Pro's are fine and would go wherever you can install and access it easily, usually between the strainer and hull intake. Save yourself a few bucks and make your own Flush Pro, do a search for the "Timmy Tee", want to say member GaryS has posted the exact parts needed to build a Timmy Tee.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2016 at 4:24pm
Here is one of many pretty good discussions of the timmy-T.

I thought we had had reports of problems with the perkos because of sticky valves or something that they can fail, if not result in not supplying cooling water, or am I thinking of something else?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2016 at 4:28pm
I think your correct Larry. Here is is another link
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2016 at 4:47pm
Most of those reports have been by the same guy Larry, lol. I have a 17+ yr old Flush Pro that by some miracle still works, lol. Think the Flush Pro is fine however would I spend $80 on one today or $10 to make a Timmy T, easy answer!!

BTW, there has been a name change, it is now the Timmy Tea Bag.........or wait, maybe I am mixing that up with something else ....... hmmmm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2016 at 4:48pm
OK, I have a question about Timmy-Ts (R)   I know they work, they are proven. Sometimes when discussion comes up about them, people ask "isn't a valve needed between the timmy t and the thru-hull? And the answer is always no, not needed the water pump can pull the water the right way - away from the thru hull. Well why is it that we are always diagnosing cooling problems due to some microscopic pin hole in the water line, at a connection or mostly at that separator that prevents the pump from pulling. I have a hard time envisioning a garden hose filling up, absolutely 100 percent the 1" water line between the T and the thru hull. Seems to me that would be pretty turbulent flow sloshing through the hose that certainly includes a potential air pathway, at least as significant as some little pin hole leak at the separator. Convince me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2016 at 5:00pm
Larry, I think there are 2 answers to your question, but they are just my thoughts, not proven by any means.

1 - Less heat generated by the engine on the hose since it is not under load, and since the running RPM range is significantly less.
2 - the hose will assist in pressurizing the water flow from the inlet of the T to the pump.   this is not replicated in the water where you are relying on suction from the pickup to the raw water pump to deliver the water.   Air leaks under normal operation would cause the pump to lose suction, and therefore would provide too little water for high operational loads.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2016 at 5:08pm
Dreaming is right on #1, it's easy to keep the engine cool at idle with no load.

There is no need to fill the cooling line/pump 100%. The tee will absolutely cause you to draw air (through the hull pickup). It still flows plenty of water to keep the engine cool and the impeller lubricated and that is all that really matters.

It is not an appropriate way to troubleshoot the cooling system.

Not all flush pro's fail prematurely but I have read many complaints about them causing overheats, either due to sloppy valves or cracked housings. KISS (and save yourself some $).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 9:15am
I installed the Timmy Tee last year, no problems with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 9:34am
Thomas,
I don't see where anyone has asked you your intended purpose for the flush or T. You run in fresh water so a fresh water flush isn't needed. If the intent is running the engine out of the water, then it's a great idea. If your thoughts are for winterizing by sucking antifreeze then it's not a good idea. I do not have the Timmy T installed on any of my boats since I've always used the "fake a lake" plunger on the thru hull pick up and without problems. but hear nothing but good reports on the T I also do not have sea strainers on any of the boats but I run in clean weed free water.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 80SN Barnfind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 9:51am
The only strainer we run is the tranny cooler! Check out this cabbage:



The Niagara River is not necessarily weedy, but this is what happens when the kids set the boat down on what has gathered under the lift.

The alternative T:



Knowledge comes by taking things apart: analysis. But wisdom comes by putting things together.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 11:01am
I do have a fake-a-lake. If you use one and your in the boat
have someone outside the boat to make sure you don't knock it loose
when moving around in the boat. (Always worried about that)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 11:35am
Thomas,
If you do install a T for the hose, I do recommend sticking with the "Timmy" version without the valve next to the thru hull. The danger with a valve is forgetting to open the valve. It's just like a hull garboard drain that at one time forgotten to put it in. If you haven't forgotten a drain plug yet, it will happen sooner or later!!   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 11:45am
Trice,
I agree the Timmy Tee is a less expensive way to get the same results. I installed one in my 2002. However, I had a Perko in my now sold 1980 and did not have any issues. I have attached a photo for your review. For a closer look, go to the d*ck Pope wing of the Lego Land / Cypress Gardens Museum in Florida to see the boat currently on display.



I hope this helps,

Donald
1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Thomas,
The danger with a valve is forgetting to open the valve. It's just like a hull garboard drain that at one time forgotten to put it in. If you haven't forgotten a drain plug yet, it will happen sooner or later!!   


Using that logic Pete maybe the steering wheel should be left off,it might be used to steer into something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 12:54pm
Gary, a steering wheel is purposeful... I'm not sure I'd say the same for the shut off valve. I used it once on Dad's '03 and promptly fried the impeller.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 1:26pm
I like Barnfind's set up. Nothing against the Timmy T, but I like the brass parts better than plastic. How many years have those through hull valves been standard on new ski boats, at least 15?   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 1:27pm
If you lock your keys in the car or house you never lock it again?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 1:33pm
I'm with you Bruce and actually bronze is what should be used.

The guidelines set forth in the American Boat & Yacht Council’s Standards and Technical Information Reports for Small Craft, Standard, H-27, Through-Hull Fittings and Drain Plugs, revised in July 2008, make it clear that seacock installations must be robust and durable. It specifies that each penetration below the waterline should be fitted with a through-hull and a seacock valve. In this context, “below the waterline” means any fitting that is submerged when the vessel heels 7° for powerboats; and to the level of the sheer amidships on sailboats. A single exception is detailed below.

While the standard is important and a quick read, a few passages are particularly relevant and potentially tricky for builders and repair yards:

• 27.5.1 “All piping, tubing or hose lines penetrating the hull below the maximum heeled waterline, shall be equipped with a seacock to stop the admission of water in the event of failure of pipes, tubing or hose. (Exception 2) Hull penetrations that discharge above the waterline in its static floating position and below the maximum heeled waterline and meet requirements H-27.5.3.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

If you lock your keys in the car or house you never lock it again?

Not a good comparison Gary, but if locking my car was 100% unnecessary and the one time I did, I locked my keys in... yeah, i don't think I would do that anymore!

If you're using the same thick schedule PVC tee that I am, it's more robust than the waste water plumbing in your house... Does that fail often? The plastic elbows/barbs on the strainers CC has installed since 1986 are the same material. You don't hear of them failing. I recommend they be installed above the water line btw, a little gravity feed helps the RWP prime.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 1:47pm
I've had one of those through hull valves on my Malibu since 2003 and have never forgot to open it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 1:51pm
Those shut offs should only be closed in emergencies anyway. Don't screw around with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

If you're using the same thick schedule PVC tee that I am, it's more robust than the waste water plumbing in your house... .

Gary still believes in scd.. 40 galv pipe water lines and cast iron DWV!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 2:02pm
It official, winter has set in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 3:21pm
Not a fair comparison Tim my house is in no danger of sinking and drowning it's inhabitants    I'm not happy that plastic is used in CC's,it's not used because it's better,it's used because it's easier and cheaper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 3:32pm
If every component was made of brass or steel, what kind of slalom wake would these boats produce, Gary? Over-engineering has plenty of downsides (cost, weight, etc). I suppose it's a miracle that none of our older, valve-less boats have gone to the bottom! Unnecessary hardware is unnecessary hardware, IMHO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

I suppose it's a miracle that none of our older, valve-less boats have gone to the bottom!

Tim,
Well stated!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 4:18pm
Wow, thanks to everyone!

My RH rotation Ford 351 PCM was removed from the boat when I bought it, it is the first CCSN I've owned, and I can't find clear pictures in the PCM manuals regarding configuration so please correct me if I have something out of place below.

"Original” 1987 CC raw water cooling system components and directional flow from hull intake to RWP inlet (1" wire reinforced hose used):

1. Through hull intake
2. Top of transmission cooler
3. Bottom of transmission cooler
4. Strainer (located near electric panel and rear starboard rocker cover with bowl down), (from strainer outlet, 1" hose downward to run between engine mount and engine block along side the oil pan)
5. RWP inlet (bottom)

The raw cooling water enters the transmission cooler on top not the bottom, correct?

I like the idea of having a clear, see through, strainer or flush pro in the system so you can open the engine cover and visually see water flowing in the system. I'm leaning toward the "by the book" drain and pour winterization method, the cheaper "T" without check valve /shutoff to block the through hall inlet for engine runs, and a clear strainer in the factory location for extra straining and the occasional flow inspection.

A special thanks to those who sent pictures!

Tom

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

Nothing against the Timmy T, but I like the brass parts better than plastic.    


Plastics!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2016 at 4:32pm
Pete, given a choice, I'll always choose bronze. How much plastic do you have in your boats?
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