New to me 78 Tique |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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I have some videos of the holeshot stutter but am having a time getting them up on YouTube. Ran the boat out of a cup (didn't have enough fuel line to go in the can). Same thing. No pressure registered but it did spew if you loosen a hose clamp. The guage goes to 100psi. Maybe it just couldn't get a reading that low or maybe the guage is junk. Anyway. Drove the boat for another half an hr and same stuff. Get fuel. Just not at holeshot. Sometimes it quits and sometimes it stutters. Frustrated to say the least but it is a learning project. Think next is either new fuel pump or get rid of the carb wedge.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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shadow
Newbie Joined: July-27-2015 Location: badin lake, nc Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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The fuel pressure should run 6 or 7 psi, it might be hard to read on a 100 psi gauge, you should be able to get a low pressure fuel gauge at about any auto parts store.
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shadow
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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I know some here joke about Autozone, but my local store is actually very good. I borrowed a fuel pressure gauge last fall for more than a month, free. You leave a hefty deposit on it but get a full refund if you bring it back by the deadline. It was a full kit with a variety of connectors.
Yes, you need a gauge with a 15 psi range, or maybe 30 psi max, to get decent readings on your fuel pump. Having said that, if the needle didn't even move on the 100 psi gauge then I think your pump is suspect. Believe me, I know this stuff can get really frustrating. Hopefully we are getting close to a solution. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11029 |
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I think you already have a vacuum gauge, maybe it's a compound gauge like the one in the link, otherwise if you get one of these it's good for engine vacuum and fuel pressure from mechanical pumps too.
Well dampened, easy to read and not bad pricewise either compound gauge or another one |
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Donald80SN
Grand Poobah Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Denver, NC Status: Offline Points: 3896 |
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I'm telling Pete.
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1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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The following video shows what the boat is doing...I took a bunch of videos and this was the best showing it dying right at the beginning and then hesitating.
Hesitation/bogging down |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11029 |
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The video sure makes these statements seem pertinent, Your Edelbrock manual should be helpful on the accelerator pump adjustment and off idle tuning |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11029 |
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This old thread has some fuel pressure info and pictures of a hookup of the gauge and some representative numbers
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Getting all of my parts ready for a weekend of testing and my list of items to check/adjust. Shadow, if you are around and would like to take a look, I would welcome that and could come to you if need be! I will be at the lake Fri evening-Tues.
I got the new fuel pump gauge so I will put that inline for testing. Also bought some new Mr Gasket carb gaskets so I can remove wedge and make sure it isn't an issue at the seals. My bog mainly happens in gear. In neutral I can move up the RPM fine. Is that bc it needs more fuel under load (seems obvious but nothing is for an engine newby)? One of my friends threw out the PCV as a potential culprit...I plan to check that it has suction. Could it be related to this issue? Should I grab a PCV before heading down? Advance Auto doesn't show having one for a 78 302 (I am looking under F-100). Are they fairly standard? Does anyone have an Edelbrock and know how their floats are set (let me know if you have a wedge or not). We set ours as per the rebuild manual: FLOAT LEVEL (7/16"); FLOAT DROP (15/16" TO 1"). Thanks for all of the help. I love learning about this stuff and really want to whip these issues. |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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NCH20SKIER
Grand Poobah Joined: December-16-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2207 |
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Just for grins I would order a pump to have on hand over the weekend in case that is the deal. If it ends up not it is not the issue return it (before installing).
Just my .02 cents |
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'05 206 Limited
'88 BFN |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Think at this point that ship has sailed from a delivery standpoint. If fuel pressure is bad I will order asap and have one in hand for the following weekend!
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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shadow
Newbie Joined: July-27-2015 Location: badin lake, nc Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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I am going to Myrtle Beach this weekend, will be back late Sunday. I am not much of a motor man, I know enough to get in trouble, give me a call, I would be glad to help out, good luck. Maybe I will get my Tique wet this coming week, still have not put it in the lake this year.
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shadow
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6121 |
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I set mine per the specs and it seems to do OK. I have and have always had a wedge. I am not a motorhead and am no expert, but I have heard many time through the years that the Edelbrocks like and perform better with a wedge, so I would be hesitant to remove it. Without reading the whole thread again, I think I recall you starting out without the wedge, correct? Did operation/performance change or worsen when you added it that would lead you to want to remove it? Interesting yours has the PCV valve set up. Mine does not. I have two vents from the valve covers up to the arrestor, but no PCV valve and that port on the carb is plugged off. |
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“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Edelbrocks need a wedge, I'm told due to the design of the floats and how their hinges are positioned. I don't know how to set the floats, but have found on the 3 new ones we've bought, they run good right out of the box. I don't know if the pvc would be an issue, but the one that I have bought for our boats is the one that SkiDim lists for a PCM 240hp. It is a standard part you get at an auto parts store. I could text the number later if you'd like.
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Riley. Would be great to get a part number.
Larry. I like the wedge and think in the long run it is needed. Just trying to cross of potential issues. One being that there could be a vacuum leak due to the wedge. We had to bend the studs to get all three parts on, pcv spacer, wedge and carb. Seated ok but not great. First will be fuel pump. |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21168 |
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Bruce, don't you have an edelbrock on that 427 you can't get to run quite right?
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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2072
I don't believe our issue with 427 is carb related, may find out how a Holley runs at some point. |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Checked fuel pressure. 5.5psi. Then we adjusted the throttle cable. It was extremely tight to get on the carb throttle. We loosened it up while keeping it firm at neutral (the carb throttle hits the idle screw). Ran for an hr and no bog yet. topping out at 4300-4400 rpm at ~45mph
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11029 |
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Sounds good Cable adjustment and synchronization with each other can be a little tricky.
Now you have a vacuum gauge to play around with too, along with verifying fuel pressure I think I'd leave that wedge alone if it was me 5.5 psi is right where your Edelbrock manual wants it too |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Good to hear! Hopefully you've got it nailed.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Is there a way to test vacuum on the edelbrock. I am under the impression that there are no vacuum ports on the marinized 1409? If so, what are we looking for on the guage? Hoping to also have an external tach and dwell meter for this weekend to do some final tuning.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11029 |
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What works for me is that same tee setup you used on the fuel line but this time tee it into the PCV line with the gauge hooked up. Use a couple inch piece of fuel line so you don't have to cut into the pcv line at all. For me it's a 3/8 by 3/8 by 1/4 tee This will give you good accurate vacuum readings . |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21168 |
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Or just plug the gauge into whatever vacuum source the pcv valve is using... it will be ok to go without it for a while.
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Perfect! What vacuum am I looking for at idle and load? When we got the boat there was a vacuum plug in a hole on the bow side of the carb. Looking in it looks like a solid cast. Any chance this is a small vacuum hole of sorts. I just need to put my finger over it to see.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11029 |
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A lot of people aren't gonna want to believe what I'm about to say, but if that's the case they can verify some readings for themselves. You always hear that boats run under constant load and then when a power valve discussion pops up, somebody will say that when you punch it from a dead stop, vacuum goes to zero and quickly recovers. It don't happen that way though If you give it full throttle vacuum drops to zero and stays there till you back off the throttle. If you run the boat at a steady 4000 rpm's vacuum stays steady, it never recovers to a higher vacuum till you back off the throttle. Same thing at any RPM in a boat that's operating under a constant load. Here are some representative numbers on a good running 351 that I wrote down a couple of years ago and verified again with a quick boat ride tonight Full throttle zero ish 4000 rpm 2.5 inches vacuum 3000 rpm 7 inches 2000 rpm 9.5 inches 1000 rpm in gear 13 inches idling in neutral 20 inches This particular boat has a 6.5 power valve so it's open whenever the boat is going over about 3300 rpm All these numbers can vary some from what I have depending on engine loading, hull efficiency etc but they'll be steady at whatever reading you have till you move the throttle. It's the concept we're after here. And remember it ain't a car. Hook your gauge up my way or Tim's with enough tubing to run it outside the engine box so you or a passenger can read it and you might be surprised at the results. You don't have to worry about power valves ...........till you find your Holley. Like I said, it's bound to lead to some discussion, but you can check it for yourself easily enough. You want a vacuum source that's below the throttle plates and not all carb vacuum fittings are below the plates so you have to watch out for that. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ken, I believe you and agree!! In fact, this is why windshield wipers are no longer vacuum operated. They only worked going down hill with the throttle plate closed!! |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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A few updates:
Checked vacuum. At neutral 13 in. Running up the rpm in neutral was 20 in. Learned that you can't remove the pcv line or the engine will die. Checked dwell. 28.8-29 degrees. The very high end of what the manual calls for. We ok? The actron 7677 that we were using was reading double on rpm. We are looking into that with tech support. We connected as per the manual. Set on 8 cyl. The connections for dwell were the same and that seemed to work fine. Sure it is something easy that we are missing. Overall the boat is running pretty well since we have worked a few of the items out. Just have to warm it up for some time before it will idle. Idling around 800 and topping out around 4400rpm |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Update: This weekend we acquired an original 450cfm Holley 4160 from Jerry on the site. Thanks so much Jerry. With the help of Zach and Tim, we took off the Edlebrock and wedge plate and added the Holley along with a new fuel line. She fired up and ran strong. No stumble. Just power. Very happy. Zach made some adjustments to the mixture and idle and we are running well. Now for a bunch of winter projects for her.
Two new ones that hit the list this weekend: Need to fashion a plate of sorts to stabilize the steering cable clamp. The stringer is not doing that job right there. There is talk of an aluminum bracket of sorts. Also, my terrible barefoot form (just trying to long line butt glide and did not happen) was too much for our pylon and the wood screws gave way at the floor. Pylon hit the motorbox but luckily damage was minimal (just some new spider cracks at the bottom). We will have to come up with a solution for a plate of some sort to get the pylon attached to the floor. We think the cup is ok. |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Same thing happened to my Promo up at Tim's with 5 or 6 guys on trick skis. I ended up cutting out the entire section between the stringers and bedding in a new piece of Doug Fir. Might have to sacrifice the carpet but it's well worth the time/work in rebuilding. |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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What do you mean by bedding? We could def cut out and replace a good size piece of ply.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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