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Shaft Alignment

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Frankenotter View Drop Down
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    Posted: April-15-2017 at 12:13am
Ok, so I was falsely hoping that my new shaft would arrive and it would just drop into place with no fuss. That's not the case.

I removed the rudder to get it out of the way. With that gone, the shaft sits to the port side of the log naturally. I can move it starboard and center it inside the log with a little pressure. If I push it up to the trans coupler, I can see that the port side has more than .003" gap from the feeler gauge.





So, I have a couple questions for tomorrow's attempt at getting this aligned.

1. If it takes pressure to center the shaft in the log, does that mean the strut is bent?
2. Is the alignment based on the results of putting the couplers together without the nuts and reading the gap, or is it based on the shaft resting naturally in the log? (does that make sense?
3. How the hell do I move this engine? I tried loosening the lock nuts, kroil, a bottle jack, prybar, and praying. I cant get the thing to budge. Ive done everything short of pulling the engine and I cant get it to move.



Sigh..........
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OldSchoolBlue84 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldSchoolBlue84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 12:43am

Seeing deja vu as I am currntly doing the exact same thing with my new ARE

The drive shaft should be centered in the log naturally without any pressure. You may have a slightly bent strut. The strut could be tweaked while still attached to the boat but probably frown upon on how to achieve straightness .... .

Good luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 12:44am
I removed the adjustment part from the eng/tranny to be able to work on the shop table. Mine took heat from torch and petes home brew to get them to move. I will say when I started I didn't think they were worthy of salvage. A little time proved otherwise. It also made the alignment much easier.
Can the strut be aligned first so as to make it fit the thru hull fitting better?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SWANY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 12:55am
Number 1-Alignment all starts at the log. If the shaft isn't center in the log, the strut needs to be loosened and moved or shimmed to make the shaft "happy" in the log. Think of it as it all starts in the middle of everything.
Number 2- once you get number one good then put the nuts on, but leave a measurable gap with the feeler gauge. Can be whatever on your starting side across from that side can't/shouldn't be more or less than .03 more than your starting number.
Number 3- I'm not expert but I'll I can say is go work out more and pull harder.
Good luck. A lot of reading in old threads helped me tons
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 3:00am
So how does one align a shaft while on the boat?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 8:10am
Hey Chris, sorry to hear of your woes.

Good advice above. Best to loosen the strut & get shaft centered in log. If you are applying pressure it is in a bind. I would remove 3 of the 4 screws & then see how much you need to twist it to get shaft centered. You may have to egg out the holes a little. If the holes are misaligned more than 1/16 in, I would get the strut straightened.

Get a jack under the manifold & remove each adjuster, maybe 1 at a time, & get them to move freely on the bench. Some one recently posted a technique of spanning the gunnels with boards & using that as a support, Probably safer than jacking the manifold.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 8:41am
Chris,
All I'd like to add to the great advice above is the shaft doesn't need to be perfectly centered in the log. If I had to give you a figure, I'd say get it within a 1/16". Then, if the strut and log isn't kicked port or starboard, the engine will end up sitting pretty centered.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 1:47pm
thanks guys. should I 4200 the strut plate when doing a final mount?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 2:25pm
Chris,
Yes, 4200 is a good choice.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 3:53pm
What is the preferred method of removing old 4200 without scratching the gel in the strut port?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 4:44pm
Chris I found this on another site:

Re: Clean-up of 3M 4200 and 5200
This is the proper product. 3M 08984 General purpose adhesive cleaner.

http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_general_purpose.cfm#

Buy it at a automotive paint store, Don't buy it at West Marine. You will save $7 to $8 on a qt. A qt will last a long time. It has a little spout that goes on the can.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 4:46pm
Chris,
I sure wouldn't worry about scratching the gel. It's going to get covered up with the strut base. Scrape and sand the old bedding compound off. Chances are it's not a polyurethane so it should come off real easy.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldSchoolBlue84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by Frankenotter Frankenotter wrote:

What is the preferred method of removing old 4200 without scratching the gel in the strut port?


I used mineral spirit. Soaked the strut base and bolts in a pan. Worked like a charm!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2017 at 5:34pm
Now we're talking experience!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 12:54pm
Here is the result of centering the shaft in the log.

It looks like the entire engine needs to shuffle laterally to port. Would you guys agree?


This is the pic of the current configuration attached to the coupler. You can see the shaft is on the right side of the log by about 1/8".


I'm planning to tackle the engine mounts tomorrow and I'd be curious to see if you guys agree with the assessment before i go for it. There is one bolt on the starboard / aft/ lower trans attach point that is basically impossible to get a tool on. Any ideas for that bad boy?

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 1:25pm
Chris,
That's quite a distance to move the engine. Check your strut location. Measure from the chine on each side to the shaft to see if it's centered. Does it at all look bent or leaning towards starboard?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldSchoolBlue84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 1:46pm
Chris, the current motor mounts, is the engine centered in between them? Maybe the previous owner made some adjustments and now since the drive shaft is centered, your having your engine/coupler misalignment. Just a thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Chris,
All I'd like to add to the great advice above is the shaft doesn't need to be perfectly centered in the log. If I had to give you a figure, I'd say get it within a 1/16". Then, if the strut and log isn't kicked port or starboard, the engine will end up sitting pretty centered.


I'm just getting an education here. Pete--so the packing seal allows for some misalignment as it's somewhat tolerant to off-center location? If the shaft goes through the packing off center by 1/16" that is ok?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 3:50pm
I wasn't doing all of the above tests by myself so I couldn't see what was happening to the strut as I did this. Tomorrow I'll have a helper and check it again. I left one srew in the shaft to use as a pivot, but maybe it got caught in something. I'll check the strut for straightness with some squares when I take it off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 4:02pm
Ok I must be going crazy. I realized the strut was in my truck so I just checked it on the bench.

Is there bias built into these or is this thing bent like a politician?

90 degree machinist square with a .550" gauge block.


Other side with the same setup


I must be missing something because how could the boat even run with that much deviation?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 4:15pm
It the base is flat on the table then I would say yes the strut is tweeked. Any measureable deviation from fron of log to back or is that similar on both sides? Which would mean it is only bent to one side and at least not twisted and bent. Sure seems fixable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 5:32pm
While you have it off, go ahead and install a new Cutlass Bearing if you had not planned on doing it already. You should not need another one for many years if you do it now with that new shaft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 7:36pm
Has anyone successfully straightened a strut?

If so, how?

Donald the cutlass is already replaced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 7:45pm
I have,sent it in to a prop repair place. You might want to check with a local or send it into Delta.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 7:47pm
Thanks Gary. I don't want to tell you what I tried to straighten the promo strut. It didn't work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 7:55pm
I'd use Fox Lake Propeller in Spring Grove, IL. for the strut straightening.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 8:42pm
Chris - I fixed one myself. I was lucky to have a friend with a fixture to hold it. Otherwise would be very difficult to hold it solid & push on it with a jack. I recommend farming this out.

Strut Straighten
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2017 at 10:09pm
Chris,
I just got off work and found you did some strut measuring. All I can say is yup, it's bent!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Chris - I fixed one myself. I was lucky to have a friend with a fixture to hold it. Otherwise would be very difficult to hold it solid & push on it with a jack. I recommend farming this out.

Strut Straighten


Chris that's a really cool setup you have there. I'm tempted to make one just to have in the future.

Peter Eader, fox lake was closed today. I have the strut for the promo that I might take to them if I don't try it myself.

For what it's worth, I called a ton of prop shops and marinas today. 80% of them thought I was crazy and didn't think a strut could be straightened. 10% thought they could try it but it would be expensive and not garunteed to be straight. The last 10% had insane requests like shimming the engine and re drilling the motor mounts. One guy said he could fix it but it wasn't worth his time unless he could do more work to my boat. I guess all I need to do is go break something so I can take it to him and allow him to rip me off?

I ended up sending it to Delta Propeller (site sponsor) They knew what I wanted right away and said they can do it for $65 in one week. Done. Just a heads up, he said we (CCF) no longer get the 10% discount.

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-17-2017 at 10:47pm
Time for another site sponsor?
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