Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Glass Layup Schedule on '82 2001?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Glass Layup Schedule on '82 2001?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page   123>
Author
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Glass Layup Schedule on '82 2001?
    Posted: April-23-2017 at 8:57pm
I've been perusing this forum for a few months now trying to glean enough information to successfully redo the stringers and floor in my '82 2001. I got it last year and limped through the summer with it knowing I had a major project on tap for the off season. Unfortunately I'm starting very late ( too many other projects at home got in the way) so I'm hoping I can get the boat back in the water the last half of the summer and into the fall.

Since I've never done fiberglass before I'm really green on the subject. After studying this site for a while I feel like I'm a little better informed. However the biggest question mark right now is the glass layup schedule. I've seen various methods on here from different members and have come up with the one below. I plan on getting my supplies from US Composites since they have been widely used on here with success. Given that they no longer have the epoxy mat I've adjusted my stringer schedule to the following;
- wrap all wood in 1 layer of 10 oz glass after priming with thinned epoxy
- 1 layer of 2" cloth tape at joint to the hull,
-1 layer of 4" cloth tape,
- 1 layer of 8" cloth tape
- 2 layers of woven 10 oz glass on all stringers then
    -1 layer of 1708 glass on secondary stringers
    - 2 layers of 1708 on main stringers

I'd like to get some feedback on this schedule from the experts on here that actually know what they're doing. Too many layer? Not enough layers? Wrong glass?
I'm using LVL for the main stringers and clear SYP for the secondaries (I cannot get my hands on douglas fir)

It's been said repeatedly on here but those of us who are very new to boat repair really appreciate all the people who have taken the time to post their knowledge for the rest of us.

I'll post pics as I go for those that are interested.

Thanks again for any help!

Allen
I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2017 at 1:52pm
I decided to go with two layers of biax tape from stringer to hull and two layers of 10 oz over the top on the secondaries and a layer of 10 oz and 1708 over the mains.

I'm waiting on the cloth and epoxy now. Hopefully delivered this week.

So far I've taken out the secondary stringers and cut the new ones. All are coped to less than 1/16" max of the hull. Most places are dead on. The old stringers were in such bad shape that 80% of them were vacuumed out with shop vac. Essentially dirt. So no pattern to make the new ones. I'm going to glue the pieces together and then cut the top down to floor level, I still have some work to do where the stringers intersect at the transom.

I also decided to put solid wood between the secondary member pieces (where the 1" wide foam was located) to help strengthen this area. Looks like the weakest point on the mains is where the weep hole is located on the bottom and the top is notched for motor mount bolt access..

Secondaries are C grade SYP (no knots and straight) since I can't get douglas fir. The extra piece I added is standard SYP. All of them will be laminated together and coated in 10 oz glass before bedding in the boat.

Mains will be LVL.

]
I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 34111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2017 at 2:12pm
Allen,
Yes, do post pictures. I'm sure all would be interested. I feel your plan is a good one but, I'd add a CPES (penetrating epoxy) treatment to all the wood. I see that Jamestown now has a penetrating epoxy in their Total Boat lineup. Worth a try since I've heard nothing but good about Total Boat products.
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2017 at 4:39pm
Yes, I planned on "priming" all the wood with epoxy prior to gluing or wrapping with glass. I had also planned on using the thinned 635 epoxy (w/ acetone) for this and then using straight 635 for gluing the secondaries together before covering with glass and installing in the boat. I figured it would be easier to cover the laminated piece with glass rather than the individual pieces before lamination. Do you recommend the Jamestown product over the thinned 635?

BTW - I found that the 40 grit flap disc on a grinder makes very quick work of taking the old stringer fiberglass down to the hull. In fact it was so quick I had to be careful so as not to take off too much and I had to stop every couple of minutes to vacuum up the pile of dust.

.
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2017 at 2:17pm
I've gotten 3 of the 4 stringers glued in (starboard main left to cut out). I still have to glass everything in on port side before cutting out the last stringer.. Before I do that though I wanted to ask about using epoxy filled pockets for the engine cradle bolts. I've seen others mention oversizing the hole in the starboard stringer for the steering cable support, filling with epoxy and then drilling the correct size hole so the wood in the hole is not exposed to water. Has anyone done this with the lag bolts for the engine cradle? Both the bolts in the side of the stringer and the top.
I'm using LVL as main stringers so lag bolting into the top is not going to be as strong as solid wood anyway. Which got me to thinking about this method. Seems I could accomplish better waterproofing the stringer and increasing strength at teh bolted connection. I'm not sure what the shear and tension strengths are for US Composites 621 epoxy but you would think it would be plenty. I can also go with a true structural epoxy that will absolutely be strong enough.

Any thoughts?

I'll try to post pics of my progress so far.
I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
TRBenj View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: June-29-2005
Location: NWCT
Status: Offline
Points: 19104
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2017 at 2:21pm
You have a cradle... why lag from the top at all? I'd through bolt from the side
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2017 at 2:25pm
I"m just going by what I took out. It had six lag bolts on each side... 3 in the top and 3 on the side. I assumed it came from the factory like that.
I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
TRBenj View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: June-29-2005
Location: NWCT
Status: Offline
Points: 19104
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2017 at 2:46pm
It did. That doesn't mean it's the best way. Especially considering your choice of stringer material.
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2017 at 2:58pm
Understood. Any thoughts on the epoxy pocket for the side bolts?
I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 34111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2017 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Nautique Newby Nautique Newby wrote:

Understood. Any thoughts on the epoxy pocket for the side bolts?

You will be through bolting (no lags) so I wouldn't worry about the epoxy but, I would CPES the holes just like you did with the other surfaces of the LVL.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete

Back to Top
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 6200
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-23-2017 at 5:06pm
Pouring some CPES down the holes should make them pretty rot resistant.

It doesn't have to last forever, it just has to last until you quit skiing!
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
Morfoot View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: February-06-2004
Location: McDonough, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 4572
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2017 at 9:17am
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

It doesn't have to last forever, it just has to last until you quit skiing!


Bite your tongue Man. I for one plan am planning on skiing forever.

74Wind says...."Morfoot...He can ski. He can wakeboard. He can cook chicken. He can create his own self-named beverage. And..can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."
Back to Top
fgroce View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: July-05-2016
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 340
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fgroce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2017 at 7:51pm
Same here, plan on skiing forever like Banana George.
FGroce
88 Ski Nautique
For 28 years
Now 2002 Ski Nautique
Back to Top
shierh View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: April-29-2015
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2017 at 12:07pm
I went overboard   used 1808 and 2 layers on main stringers with 4 where engine sits.   outside stringers got 2.
I used coosa board.
Side bolted the engine cradle.   However I found that the cradle moved so I had to lag it from the top. put them closer to the mounts.

If I did it again I would have filled the gap using the cradle as a form.   
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2017 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by shierh shierh wrote:

"I went overboard   used 1808 and 2 layers on main stringers with 4 where engine sits outside stringers got 2."

If I did it again I would have filled the gap using the cradle as a form.   


You used 2 layers of 1808 on the mains and 4 layers of 1808 at the engine?
Outside stringers got two layers of what?

Are you saying you had a gap between the side of the stringer and vertical leg of the cradle?
I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
shierh View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: April-29-2015
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-26-2017 at 12:28pm
I used 1808 for everything.   I didn't know it was 1808 until later. thought it was 1708.   

Gap was at the top of the cradle, I shaped the tops of the stringers to allow the cloth to wrap over.   As stated I would do it slightly different if I ever do another one.   

I used 25 gallons of resin and way more cloth than needed.   No data out there for using coosa board instead of doug fir so I went over kill.   If done again I would do 2 layers on the mains and one on the secondary. I would not have glassed both sides of the deck with 1708 either.   would have sealed the bottom and glassed the top.   

I added some weight to it instead of making it lighter.   Sure is strong though.   
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 9:20am
I took some pics to update the stringer work. I've got both secondaries and one main glued and filleted in the boat. I'm hoping to glass the port side in this weekend. I hope to do it all at once to get the max bond rather than one layer, cure, next layer, cure, etc.


Three of the four pieces of wood blocking on the transom for the swim deck have been cut out. The fourth will be cut out when the last stringer is removed. The blocking around the exhaust tips seems to be pretty solid. I looks like the factory (or somebody) used plumbers putty around the tip flange to seal it. It seems to have worked. Is that what you use when you put them back in?

I will say the best tool so far has been the power hand planer (as mentioned in the Stringer Tips thread). Since shaping the stringer to fit in the boat is more sculpting than cutting it has been a HUGE time saver. I can usually get a stringer done in less than a day and that's with 2 dozen trips in and out of the boat with it.
I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 9:28am
I did have an issue pop up when I was grinding out the bilge to remove the paint. I know the motor and shaft had an alignment issue last summer (first season with the boat). So I was afraid of what I might find. When the dust settled over the area around the strut bolts I noticed a fair amount of cracking showing up in the fiberglass. It's the same pattern on both sides of the bilge (just one side shows in the pic).


The gel coat on the bottom has a couple of small cracks at each corner.


I've looked through this forum for tips on repairing the top side and all I've found so far is grinding down a little and laying in a couple layers of glass. I guess it's a bit arbitrary to ask how far down I need to grind as all repairs are different. Can anyone shed some insight on this?

What about the bottom side? Does the gel coat need to be repair at this point?



I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
shierh View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: April-29-2015
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 9:47am
Wonder if this is common
Mine had an interior patch over the shaft log. No stress cracks on outside though. The patch would have been done at SE Correct Craft and likely it was under warranty or they beefed it up because it was know issue.   

Anyhow I looked at my photos and looks like I put one extra layer over the strut area when I did the job.   

For you I would grind it down about 3/16 over the strut and out to edge of cracking and lay some 1708 in there and then lay a whole piece between the stringers over this area. Believe that should be more than enough.    
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 10:09am
The cracking above was most likely caused by the alignment issue. The shaft does not appear to be bent to the eye when rolling on flat surface. But I have not put a dial on it. The strut also does not appear to be bent and the cutlass bearings appear to be in good shape (nice and tight) and are not unevenly worn. However the brass in the stuffing box is trashed. The hole is warn to oblong. Obviously this is where the shaft was rubbing. The output shaft on the trans turns smooth and does not have any lateral play.



As you can see in the photo the strut is not aligned with the shaft log. The natural position is as shown... offset to starboard. So assuming the shaft is indeed still straight, the strut will have to be repositioned.


I apologize for the crappy close-up pics.

I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 10:13am
Originally posted by shierh shierh wrote:

Wonder if this is common
Mine had an interior patch over the shaft log. No stress cracks on outside though. The patch would have been done at SE Correct Craft and likely it was under warranty or they beefed it up because it was know issue.   
    


Mine also has a patch around the shaft log as well as the pylon support sleeve. Both look like the same repair and both looked like the same repairs others on this forum have shared. So I assume (hope) it was done by Correct Craft.
I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 34111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 10:25am
Allen,
The stringer job is looking great. Keep that momentum going!! I'd guess that at one time the strut took a hit that damaged the glass. It may not have bent the strut but was enough to fracture the glass. I agree with grinding out some glass in the bilge and laying down some more. I wouldn't worry about the gel.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete

Back to Top
TRBenj View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: June-29-2005
Location: NWCT
Status: Offline
Points: 19104
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 10:32am
The gray gel around the log and pylon base are not necessarily repairs... that is the way cc built the boats in the 70's (presumably log holes and pylon receptacles were cut/placed after the bilge gel was shot.
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 10:43am
Forgot to upload the pic of the stuffing box. Obviously this has to be replaced. So the question is go back with a standards drip version or dripless. I've seen pros and cons for both. Are all the dripless versions the same? Pretty big price difference.

I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 34111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 10:54am
Originally posted by Nautique Newby Nautique Newby wrote:

   Obviously this has to be replaced. So the question is go back with a standards drip version or dripless. I've seen pros and cons for both.

Allen,
It worked for 35 years so why spend the $$ on a "dripless"? Put some good Goxtex packing in it and you'll be fine.

BTW, I've got one that has worked great for 40 years, one for 53 years and then another one for 63 years!


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete

Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

The gray gel around the log and pylon base are not necessarily repairs... that is the way cc built the boats in the 70's (presumably log holes and pylon receptacles were cut/placed after the bilge gel was shot.


Those two areas had a different bilge coating slathered on the hull so I assumed it was a repair at some point. however I did not see any signs of damage underneath or evidence of gel coat repair. Only thing is one of the fins is bent over a little in front of the pylon mount..

Well now that I read your post again I understand what your're saying. Just cause the bilge coating is different doesn't mean it's a repair.
I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
shierh View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: April-29-2015
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 290
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 2:08pm
In my case it appears reinforcement was added when the boat was in for repairs of the rear where the lifting ring tore out.   SE Correct Craft made what turned out to be a horrible repair, words cant describe what I had to do to fix it properly.   

anyhow they laid up epoxy glass over the shaft log for some unknown reason.   It was pretty rough so I smoothed it out and finished it off properly when I did the stringer job.   

All of those who have posted photos of their old stringers had way more of a template than I did. In my case there was NO wood left, it had been eaten by carpenter ants and only about 10% was left. I had a terrible time trying to make a reasonable template and about 1/3 was a basic guess. In retrospect my whole project should have been to salvage what few parts I could have and got another boat to do.   
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 2:15pm
On a separate note. Has anyone added tie down hooks to the transom under the swim deck? Lag bolting through the fiberglass and into the wood blocking. I hate to add more hole below the water level but I'd like to secure the boat on the trailer a little better. the boat would shift on the bunks whenever it went over a decent size bump last year and I hate to solely rely on the guide poles to keep the boat on the trailer.

Only other option is to strap it down over the gunnels.

BTW - I"m adding a prop guard member to the back of the trailer so I could use transom straps if I had a place to attach on the boat.
I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
Nautique Newby View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March-28-2017
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique Newby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by shierh shierh wrote:



All of those who have posted photos of their old stringers had way more of a template than I did. In my case there was NO wood left, it had been eaten by carpenter ants and only about 10% was left. I had a terrible time trying to make a reasonable template and about 1/3 was a basic guess. In retrospect my whole project should have been to salvage what few parts I could have and got another boat to do.   


So far the biggest piece of wood I've taken out of the old stringers was 1 very rough looking 4' piece of the secondary. All the rest has been vacuumed out. Nothing but soft wood and dirt. I should have put it in my garden and gotten some use out of it. The fiberglass was all of the structure.
I did use the main stringer fiberglass to help shape the top of the new main. But since I was comparing finished surface to wood surface (no glass) I had to interpolate. I'll find out how well I did or didn't do when I get the engine back in.
I hope I don't screw this up!
Back to Top
Wisky Badger View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: July-02-2015
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 97
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wisky Badger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2017 at 2:49pm
Great progress, keep the pictures coming.

Regarding the transom tie downs. I am in about same steps as you on my 81 right now and was also wondering about adding transom tie downs.   I was thinking about adding some above the waterline by glassing in some new wood to the interior of the transom above the swim platform mounts, but I don't think it will look very good. Do you think you can strap to the bottom of the swim platform if you use through hull bolts instead of lags or would this create to much stress on the swim platform brackets?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page   123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2016 | Bagley Productions, LLC