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Another 4160 issue

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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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    Posted: June-06-2017 at 7:14pm
I just got back from putting the carb back on the 302 in the Tique and firing it up. Not good!! I removed the carb in the fall of 2015 for a new accelerator pump diaphragm and then due to the house project never got the Tique in the water last summer. Now I have a very rich running engine to the point where it will not idle. I did get it out and ran it hard with some hope but that never works! So unless someone (Ken?) has some ideas, I'll be pulling the carb and doing a rebuild on it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2017 at 7:34pm
I have an idea: use it more! Choke sticking?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2017 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by Orlando76 Orlando76 wrote:

I have an idea: use it more! Choke sticking?

Todd,
I did have a choice last summer and that was to spend more time on the water and less time on the house. Now, the issue at hand was getting the house to the point where the wife could move back in. I think you'll understand why the Tique didn't get wet! At least I got the little Alumacraft in!

The choke is wide open and the first thing I looked at.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2017 at 8:21pm
Hi Pete

My favorite sorta hack maneuver that works a surprising number of times is to rap the float bowls in the area of the fuel inlet needle and seat with a screwdriver handle while the engine's running.

Might be a little piece of junk between the needle and seat that gets dislodged and everything smooths out.

You must be able to see big blobs of gas going into either the primary or secondary bores. Give that bowl a good rap

Otherwise you're probably taking it apart

And I would get one of these fuel transfer tubes in the link

I could always count on screwing up an o ring and having a leak after it was all back together and installed and the seals on these tubes are more of a sleeve and almost impossible for me to screw up

They were probably developed by those Quick Fuel guys and Holley stole their idea, but however it went, these things work great   

Speaking of Quick Fuel, I see that they are now owned by....................Holley

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2017 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


I did have a choice last summer and that was to spend more time on the water and less time on the house. Now, the issue at hand was getting the house to the point where the wife could move back in. I think you'll understand why the Tique didn't get wet! At least I got the little Alumacraft in!
.

Here's a little internet tip - Never use the words Wife, Wet, little Alumacraft and In in the same paragraph. People might get the wrong impression on a family oriented forum. Quinner might spew his beer on the passenger in front of him
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2017 at 1:22am
I agree with KENO that it sounds like a needle/seat that is not functioning properly.

On my QF M-600, the engine suddenly started running SUPER rich. It wouldn't idle below 1,500 RPMs. I pulled the flame suppressor and saw a steady stream of fuel flowing through the primaries. Sure enough, I found a small brass metal filing that had become wedged between the needle and seat.

New needle and seat from QF and running good as new.

As KENO has pointed out -- QF is now owned by Holley. My recollection was that QF was originally started by some Holley engineers that broke away to build the carbs that Holley wouldn't. Full circle...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2017 at 12:06pm
I had the opportunity to make it back to the boat Ken, I feel your advice to give the carb a rap did some good. It still is running rich (always has) but it will now idle. So, it's out of the boat house and on the lift for the summer. I did order a rebuild kit and the transfer tube and will address the carb later in the summer. Regarding the transfer tube, it did leak when I first started the engine. Shifting the tube for and aft on it's seals stopped the leak for now. I will keep an eye on it since it's more concerning than the running rich condition.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2017 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Hi Pete
...
And I would get one of these fuel transfer tubes in the link

I could always count on screwing up an o ring and having a leak after it was all back together and installed and the seals on these tubes are more of a sleeve and almost impossible for me to screw up ...


Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

... Regarding the transfer tube, it did leak when I first started the engine. Shifting the tube for and aft on it's seals stopped the leak for now. I will keep an eye on it since it's more concerning than the running rich condition...


Pete, I'm guessing you'll find something like this. I had a similar situation, where I messed up a fuel transfer tube O-Ring. Shifting the tube did temporarily fix it, but at one point it started leaking a lot and I had to take it apart and re-place the rings. The rings that came with my Daytona Parts rebuild kit where way beefier, but it looks like that whole new tube mentioned above is an even better solution.

I had stabbed my O-ring with the tube like this:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2017 at 12:38pm
Nice......

When all else fails get a bigger hammer. Then stopping a fuel leak by twisting, sliding and prying on the affected object hoping it lasts the summer. All just to avoid removing the carb.

Watch out Pete, that could easily be mistaken for a back yard hack job.....

When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2017 at 1:18pm
When I was doing my twisting and sliding of the transfer tube, I naively thought I was "seating" the O-Rings. Little did I know I was actually tearing them up more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2017 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by backfoot100 backfoot100 wrote:

.

Watch out Pete, that could easily be mistaken for a back yard hack job.....


Eddie,
If anyone says anything, I'll just tell them Ken made me do it!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2017 at 1:56pm
Don't worry Eddie he's got 2 other boats to use for the summer so that will take care of the 2 weeks he has before the ice comes in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2017 at 2:09pm
Ken/Pete are the transfer tubes from summit different?   hard to tell from the picture, but I do recall getting the end cap style seals in my holley carb kit.   wondering if the tube is actually different or just the seals?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2017 at 2:23pm
Yes there are 2 different tubes the older style with the o rings have a "crimp" to help locate the orings otherwise they could slide out. The new style tube is just straight the seals are like a hat with a hole in the center
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2017 at 3:12pm
Good description Gary I was at a loss for how to describe the seals. I guess I'd call it a top hat or a Bat Masterson style hat.

Here are a couple of pictures

The first picture is a comparison of an ugly old tube on the bottom,
a nice pretty new one in the middle and a homemade one on top. Length difference is obvious



The second picture shows the tube with the
seals on the ends.


Some kits come with both the o rings for the older style tube and also have the newer style seals included.

So if you have a couple of newer seals but no new style tube you can make your own transfer tube out of a piece of 1/4 inch OD brake line. Cut it 5 1/2 inches long and you're all set, the seals fit right on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lakeview Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-17-2017 at 6:23pm
Pete-without getting crazy-before your rebuild try running a gas can from your fuel inlet side of the pump mixed with seafoam-if there's gunk you can't see-it might do the trick with your needle seats.
I'm ready to replace my Holley with a Quick Fuel M-600-hear nothing but good stuff about them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-18-2017 at 7:43am
Jim,
Ken's method worked.

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Hi Pete

My favorite sorta hack maneuver that works a surprising number of times is to rap the float bowls in the area of the fuel inlet needle and seat with a screwdriver handle while the engine's running.

Might be a little piece of junk between the needle and seat that gets dislodged and everything smooths out.


So, for now I'm good. It's idling and running like it always has but still slightly rich per my nose. I'll probably add the carb rebuild to my over the winter list of things to do.


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