Non start/ignitition issue on 1986 Martinique

Hello all,

I continue to tinker and enjoy my 1986 Martinique, but I've run into a non-start issue on the old girl. Several of you have been good to offer feedback on several topics this past couple of years as i've been getting her up to snuff. I would like to share my latest issue for comments & insight from the group....any feedback would be appreciated... the boat has about 700-800 hrs on it but has obviously been taken care of and maintained over the years.

My last project was the replacement of the carb about two summers ago with the more modern "Quick Fuel" unit that has been talked about on the board. That was a nice upgrade & the boat ran great (with exception of issue noted below) with the new carb the remainder of that summer, but now i've got a new issue.

Started noticing difficulty with cold starts late last summer....took several cranks to get it to fire...once it fired and warmed up, everything was good the rest of the day. On a side note, I ran the boat out of gas a week or two before noticing the cold start problem last summer. After refueling, it took some time and numerous cranks to get the boat to fire. I removed/opened the fuel filter housing thinking it might have trash/clogged somewhere, but it looked relatively clean. I cleaned the fuel filter and reinstalled, and continued several crank attempts...after another 10-15 mins of attempts, it eventually cranked. As best I remember, seems cold start was difficult remainder of last summer and has been ever since.

Beginning this summer, I've had the same cold start difficulty. First time out this summer, the motor backfired loudly once after having been run a while (ie, not during a cold start), then cranked after a few more turns ....thought that was significant as the boats never backfired before. The outing before last, it took over an hour to get the boat to crank with intermittent trouble shooting of this and that on ignition & fuel systems...not sure what actually changed after the hour of fiddling with things, but boat finally cranked and ran fine rest of day.

Yesterday experienced the same cold start issue, but after an hour or so, never got the boat to fire and battery finally ran down so I shut things down.

Here are my observations:
-through the last two long period attempts to crank, I never smelled fuel as i would expect from numerous throttle actuations...made me think I had a fuel issue, but i opened the fuel line and turned the motor over a rotat or two and clearly had a surge of fuel. Possibly a minimum fuel pressure not being meet? Otherwise, mech fuel pump looks ok from exterior.
-I checked pressing the main coil -to -distrib cap wire pressed to manifold and had spark...also opened distrib cap and could see spark at points...brushed points with a penny and rotor contact point to freshen contact points-no help.
-Tried starter fluid shots into the carb several times, but never got the motor to fire once...causes me to think its an ignition issue rather than fuel pressure issue.
-I've only owned the boat for 3 seasons, it appears to have had a tune up kit/distrib cap/points etc, & new coil at some point, but the distrib unit itself is old & original looking. Plug wires look relatively newer as well...haven't pulled plugs yet, but going to do so soon.

Going forward:
-I try to do as much myself as possible....with numerous aged/original ignition parts, a tune up kit seems to be a logical next step to freshen up the points, cap/rotor/condenser, etc..

-Read article about distrib on these old boats getting worn bearings/seals etc...Been thinking about doing an electronic ignition conversion...thought this might be a good time to do so. This motor has the clip down distrub cap by the way & I couldnt' find a drop in point-less ignition module for it (ie, 1986 & earlier clip down cap). Anyone know if the point-less drop in modules are still available for the 1986 & earlier clip down distributors?

-I did however find the following pertronix-flame thrower distrib for about $255 that looks like a possibility for upgrading/replacing the entire distrib unit. Anyone had experience with this unit/upgrade?

https://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/pertronix-flame-thrower-plug-and-play-marine-distributors-with-ignitor-ii-module

-I broke the wire that runs from the coil into the distrib cap and attaches to the points, and got the points gap likely out of spec working on things yesterday, so until I get some new parts, everything is out of sorts right now.

My hunch is that its an ignition component or failing distributor issue. I don't mind spending the $250 to upgrade the distrib & convert to electronic ignition if this is a good unit and will resolve my issue.

Anyone see anything I'm missing that could be the issue that this distrib upgrade or tune up kit might not correct?

PS: anyone know a dependable mechanic in the Bham, AL area (if I can't trouble shoot myself?)

Thanks much in advance for any & all thoughts.

Jeff Lunceford in Alabama

Thank you for alerting on the Petronix unit....I didn't know it wouldn't work.   Thanks also for recommending that spark tool. Will get one of those.

I've never replaced or adjusted points.....don't they have a gap setting spec? Also, do I have to reset the timing (never done that either)? Don't mind giving it a try....could someone point me to a DIY instruction?

thanks again....Jeff

Somehow I knew that "Pete the Prince of Points" would come along

The gap is .018 inches and the timing would be 6 degrees BTDC for the clip down cap. The dwell spec is 29 to 33 degrees from my PCM manual. Spark plug gap of .035 inches

Now as far as that dwell meter, it's not absolutely necessary. It's the best way but you can get away with points at .018 and no dwell meter and it'll run OK

Thanks again everyone. I understand that not all points are equal and quality. Do you guys have a source or brand of points and tune up kit that you prefer?

See the link for an old thread that has a picture of the spring or strap that I mentioned in the previous post and a lot of discussion about symptoms etc.

link

I don't really plan or want to go this route, but if my dist/dizzy is bad, wouldn't this be a proper fitment for a full electronic distrib replacement, or does it have the wrong size gear as well ?

https://www.nautiqueparts.com/product/electronic-distributor-kit-for-reverse-rotation-right-hand-motors-pcm-rk107026a/

8122pbrainard wrote: Jeff, Tell us where you are at with getting the engine running before you even think about a distributor replacement. I agree with Ken: KENO wrote: I'd get it running on points then decide what you want to do.

I agree with Pete who agrees with me

But anyways, the distributor you have the link to would fit right

Jeff,
Missing something? Yes, I'd say so. since the EI conversion just isn't a drop in and go!! Save the point plate!!!!

fwiw....i'm comfortable and pretty decent at following directions if they are reasonably coherent....i've pulled & replaced differentials, clutches, etc. on cars....pulled and replaced the original holly carb and got the Quick Fuel unit running with no problem 2 summers ago. I just don't have a good feel for setting timing, and dont have a timing light.

The directions are good and you shouldn't have any trouble with the installation but like Duane said you'll need a timing light.

Make sure you use the rotor that comes with the kit, it looks the same as the original at a quick glance but fits the magnet ring with no slop. Many of the rotors for that distributor are a sloppy fit in the ring so the Pertronix rotor is needed.

SNobsessed wrote: +3 vote on getting it to run on points before installing the EI kit. If it doesn't run on the kit, you won't know if it is the kit or the original problem. Also, electrical stuff generally isn't returnable, esp if fried. Setting points is really easy. There must be a utube video that can walk you thru it. Just get the point rubbing block on top of the lobe (use a 5/16 socket & ratchet to turn crank). Set gap to .018 so that feeler gage will fit but .020 won't. You could plug in that new coil right away. That could be your whole issue in 1st place. Extra thought - I would just manually ground/unground your coil (-) terminal (with ignition on) & see if it makes a spark. This is all the points do!

That's a pretty small wrench, or a typo.

I'll vote for typo.

Should be a 15/16 socket