Velvet Drive 71C rebuild trouble |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Posted: September-20-2017 at 1:28am |
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Just completed a complete rebuild on my Velvet Drive 71C. Followed the rebuild instructions to the “tee”, at least I thought I did. Today when I went to test my transmission it was stuck in reverse. I cannot figure out why. Any ideas before I have to completely pull the transmission again? Please help!!!
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Craig, Unfortunately there is little that can be done with it's still in the boat. Make sure that the selector valve is physically moving from neutral to forward and reverse. I would do that check with the shifter cable disconnected from the selector lever. This can be done in the driveway if you are not in the lake. Make certain that the prop shaft stays lubed with a water source or at least squirt dish soap into the cutlas bearing. This can be done for very short periods of running.
It sounds more like the reverse clutch is hanging up and not releasing. As you know, that requires removing the trans again. What year is your trans?? Did you manually shift from F N R ?? |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Craig,
Just as Duane says, the trans has got to come out. Once out, check to see if it's still stuck in reverse by turning the input shaft. If the output shaft turns (stuck in reverse) then there's a mechanical lock up. How many reverse plates did you install and how many old ones were removed? If the trans isn't locked up (output shaft doesn't turn when turning input shaft) then the problem is hydraulic and like Duane mentions take a look at the shift spool valve on the selector arm. Did you do any work on the valve spool like an O ring replacement? |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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I think you'll probably end up pulling the transmission again, but the good news is that you shouldn't have to get very far into it since after the pump is off, the forward & reverse adapter is next but I figure you know that since you just had it apart and back together.
I've done the same thing and found that I had the reverse clutch piston cocked in the adapter and the reverse clutch was engaging the ring gear so it was stuck in reverse. So in other words something in the reverse section is bound up preventing the ring gear from rotating Like Pete mentioned, you should be able to rotate the input shaft pretty freely when it's all assembled. The output may want to turn a little while you're doing this but one hand on the output coupling will stop the motion while you're turning the input shaft with the other hand. |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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To expand on that, If it is errantly mechanically coupled, the output shaft shouldn;t be able to be turned by hand either.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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This morning before work I checked the cable linkage to the transmission. I actuated the throttle lever and it did not move the gear selector lever. Somewhere the cable has come loose. In my haste of trying it out yesterday evening in the last bit of daylight I did not check if the cable moved the lever. I could freely moving the lever before I attached the cable so I just assumed that everything was fine. My assumption is that the cable must have come loose at the throttle lever when there was slack in it when it was unhooked from the transmission. I will have to look after work today. I HOPE that is the only thing wrong and I do not have to pull the transmission again!
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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Its lIkely the pivot!...
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21115 |
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Did you properly attach the shift cable to the fixed bracket on the bellhousing?
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Yes! |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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What is the pivot? |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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If you click on the link that says connectors that's what he's calling a pivot. One at each end of the cable
connectors or another longshot, maybe the cable broke |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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There is a pivot threaded onto the end of the cable and attaches to the Morse shifter. There is another pivot type piece that attaches the cable to the trans. Take that piece off of the shift lever on the trans and see if the trans will shift manually. Another issue to look at is whether or not the Neutral Safety Switch is functioning properly. Very important that is is working. Sounds like the engine was started and then the trans was put into reverse. At that point the shifter cable malfunctioned and would not move the shifter lever on the trans. Maybe a real easy fix. Hope so.
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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KenO, That pivot may only be on the Morse shifter end. Mine had a different piece on the trany end, but he will get the idea. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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I'm kinda curious what's on the end of yours Duane
A picture would make me less curious |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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[QUOTE=Duane in Indy] Another issue to look at is whether or not the Neutral Safety Switch is functioning properly. Very important that it is working. Sounds like the engine was started and then the trans was put into reverse. QUOTE]
Neutral Safety switch is NOT working. I bought this boat at the first of the summer and it never has worked. Honestly I don't know what to do to fix it. and..... YES I KNOW it is a HUGE safety issue! |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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NSS is an easy fix, Just remove it and test it with a VOM. Actually you can test it still installed. One wire in and one wire out. One wire should terminate at the starter solenoid, small post. When you remove it then you will see how simple it is. It may just need a good cleaning.
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Now that's different Duane Looks like something Pete would've hacked up in the backyard But it works, probably stronger too |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Probably be better if it was aluminum. Shifter has about a 5/16 stud on it with an E clip
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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I went home at lunch and checked the cable. Evidently when I checked it this morning it was disengaged. I engaged it and everything moved correctly. The transmission selector lever moves like it should. I started the motor briefly and the transmission is indeed still stuck in reverse. On the way back in I remembered something odd when I took the transmission apart. I was going to write something in this post about it. My transmission did not have a steel clutch plate between the reverse friction plate and the reverse clutch pressure plate like the manual showed. I couldn't remember what the steel clutch plate was called so I looked in the manual before I typed it. This time when I looked at the manual I noticed at the section about re-assembling the reverse clutch it gives a reference to a chart 3 pages over. So I looked at the chart. Only then did I read that the 1017-001 series DOES NOT use a steel reverse clutch plate. Only a friction plate and the pressure plate. Well Crap! There's your problem right there!! So it looks like I get to pull the transmission and take the steel clutch plate out tonight!! Son-ova!
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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It doesn't have any wires going to it. So where exactly do the wires need to go and be connected to? |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Another thing....When I reconnected the cables to my throttle lever. I noticed that it has a tremendous amount of travel. The transmission selector lever only moves from forward to reverse. But the carburetor linkage seems to move quite a bit. Shouldn't there be some sort of stop on it? I realize that the carburetor will only open so far so why is my throttle moving so much?
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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The manuals are kinda generic in that they cover several models and revisions. Mine only has one friction reverse plate but the manual talks of several.
Well that should certainly loosen things up. Now fix that NSS Did your pump seal for the input shaft have a neoprene coating on the OD or painted metal. NOT a fan of the neoprene OD seal. They can push out. fwiw |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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RoosterFeather
Newbie Joined: September-20-2017 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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It has the neoprene seal.
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Good luck with it then. When I rebuilt mine I had to replace my seal. It did not want to stay put.. Yours may stay in forever. Not worth the gamble to me.
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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And Pete asked how many plates you put in
You just want one plate and the pressure plate. The beefier, bigger 72C (10-18) has an extra plate and also the outer clutch plate.is needed because of the extra plate You should be all set after fixing that issue 'cause that will sure bind up things with the extra plate in there |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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At least you didn't leave out any pieces, you just put in extras.
Most rebuild kits come with the plate needed for a 72c (10-18) just to confuse people who are working on a 71C I think some of the 10-17's like a 10-17-005 or higher have 2 reverse plates too. Heavier duty with a reduction unit on the end of it. |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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If you drop the morse control, you will see different holes to pin the pivot into. Each one provides a different amount of cable travel. Perhaps its in a hole not well matched.
Also, Many marinizations have a extension bracket on the throttle horn, to place the cable and onto. This createds a longer throw at the carb, a longer arc, and more precise throttle control necessary for tournament skiing. Maybe your carb is missing that. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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The definition of a master mechanic is he can make something work and have parts left over! |
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