73 Mustang prop shaft questions |
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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Posted: September-28-2017 at 11:30am |
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Alright, I picked up this boat not even 2 months ago, I've had it out 4 times and this last time the shaft came loose from the coupling, luckily I was idling in the marina when it happened. So I put it back together and I was able to finish out the day. But I would like to start looking into fixing it this winter. Also, I've included a picture of where the original speedo pickup is located, did they use a brass line and compression fittings or what? I'd like to fix this boat up and make it into a good ski/cruise boat again. I have linked the pics from Imgur.
Pictures of the shaft. https://imgur.com/a/CCooC Random pictures of the boat, motor, in the water, etc.... https://imgur.com/a/OCXDf I know I have a lot of work to do to the boat, I plan to re-wire it as the wiring mess annoys me. The horn will be replaced with either electric trumpets similar to factory or I may go air horns, that will be decided later. The gauges do not work so they will be swapped out for working gauges. The interior is showing it's wear and needs new frames built and new upholstery. The motor cover is the orange one that news new upholstery, but I was given the bare one from another 70's correct craft that I use until I have time to fix the factory one. Also, I need to figure out the thermostat housing to water pump setup, the original setup was taken off and discarded by the previous owner and is currently rigged which I do not care for at all. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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From the parts forum:
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Phillip,
Here's a direct link to your pictures. Tell us more about the boat and do try to post some pictures. I see the hull is orange. By chance does it have large bold hull side graphics? If so, it's a sought after promo boat!! |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Compression fittings on copper line for the speedo
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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Alright, I updated the original post with a link to more pictures. Do you know if the copper line that's sold at parts store for mechanical oil pressure gauges will work for my speedo? If not, what size do I need? My boat is a 73 mustang with the 302, I do not believe it is a promo, I have original trailer for it though. I plan to keep most of it original looking, but I do plan to add some modern features like cupholders and a radio. But right now I'm just trying to work out the little issues that keep popping up, like the shaft coming uncoupled, the fuel pump wasn't pumping enough fuel this last run, so either the lines/pickup are leaking air or the pump which is fairly new I was told is bad. Feel free to look through the pictures I've posted and let me know any input. Please keep in mind that I am on a budget so I plan to make a list of repairs I need to do and slowly work on it as I get time and money. A lot of the major items will be addressed once the cooler weather is here as it's still 90+ in Houston and that's not enjoyable to work on anything.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Thanks for the additional pictures. You are correct that your boat is a Mustang and not a SN promo. The copper tubing for the speedo can be purchased at the hardware store as it's not anything special.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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Wouldn't hurt to replace fuel line, but your issue is most likely debris within the tank pickup, and its check valve in the npt-hose barb adapter
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5312 |
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Definitely a dull diamond but some spit and polish and she'll brilliantly shine once again. The first thing is get rid of that plastic in line fuel filter. That is a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. I hope you'll go back with OEM MK-27 gauges. They may work as you've got a wiring nightmare on your hands and the ones that are broken can be found on the net but you've got to look and be patient. The waterline stripe is too wide for that boat. Once you get the line for the speedo hooked up keep you're fingers crossed as to if it works. They aren't too accurate when they do work but having the original speedo in compliments the look. I use a GPS in my 72' Mustang for skiing and accuracy purposes. The carpet in the floor isn't original either as vinyl Nautolex was used and can still found.
Might I suggest the old school ( stick in the window seal) type cup holders to use instead of permanent ones. The slip in great between the combing pads and the hull and can be used anywhere in the boat. Consider going with a Bluetooth speaker for your radio instead of trying to find a place to install speakers and head unit. You're gonna need all the room you can for necessities( cooler, towels, a ski or two, rope, jackets) My Bluetooth speaker sits on the dash and is plenty loud for when your parked and soaking in the sun. Besides the best stereo system is the twin pipes out the back with no mufflers( the flaps aren't really needed either so I'd take them off). Keep us posted on the progress and post pics. You'll have a great fun little boat to cruise in and the looks and wows you'll get are worth the time and effort restoring it! |
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"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I sure agree with Tim. I don't know what I dislike more than non original cup holders drilled into the deck or snaps for covers!! |
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scootdogydog
Senior Member Joined: November-03-2013 Location: Central MA Status: Offline Points: 404 |
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I have non original cupholders on my tique...attached to the deck with Velcro. It works great! |
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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It definitely needs some cleaning. The filter I plan to redo the fuel lines, but for now it'll stay since it's nice to see the fuel level in it which is also how I know the fuel pumps wasn't pumping enough, in idle it would start to fill the filter up, but when running higher rpm's it couldn't keep up. My buddy and I bypassed the factory wiring and used jumpers to test the gauges, and most didn't work. The oil pressure and ammeter are the only ones that seem to work at the moment. But I do plan to swap out the ammeter with a voltage gauge that matches whatever I do run. A nice member sent me his old gauges that are off a newer boat than mine, so I'll have to test them.
I agree the stripe isn't pretty and will probably just be removed in the future, but for now I'll leave it. I'm hoping the speedo works once hooked up, the previous owner installed a cheap plastic pickup on the back of the boat that was broken when I bought it, so I plan to remove that and get the factory one hooked back up. I know the carpet isn't original and the person who installed it did a horrible job, so that too will be removed and something better installed probably this winter. But I would first like to patch the floor and any other items repaired before I mess with cosmetics. I have considered the window cup holders and have some for my 82 dodge pickup, but they don't work for crap and I'd like something a bit sturdier. I have considered mounting some to a bracket that attaches behind the dash and would hold them in front close to the padding so it'd be easy to remove, but I'm not sold on that either. I only plan to add 2 cup holders, but I haven't finalized where or how. I already use my bluetooth speaker on my boat, but it's not quite adequate for cruising the lake, so a small setup would be more ideal for me. I'll have to check on my boat before I install anything, but I want function and looks, so if it will be in the way of using my boat as a ski boat, I won't do it. But I'm also not going to toss out the idea just because it's not factory. I love this old boat and plan to keep it for a long time, but to do so, it needs work and a few upgrades. As for the flaps, I probably will take them off, I know they are useless and not really sure what their purpose is other than to maybe keep critters out of the exhaust when it's out of water. I will keep progress updated, but right now my main goal is to get it functioning at 100% and then work on cosmetics. |
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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My buddy also bought me new Correct Craft badges for the sides and new USA stickers. So eventually it will get those as well. I plan to remove the correct craft lettering from the back. My girlfriend named my boat Clementine so I will have a sticker made eventually and that will be on the back.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Phillip,
Do check the anti siphon valve that Tom mentioned before condemning the fuel pump. A pressure gauge tee'd into the line after the pump is best for checking the pump.Yes, the plastic fuel filter is a bomb like Tim mentions and must go. Keep in mind there are USCG regs on fuel lines especially the high pressure side of the pump. What's the problem with an ammeter? You mention going to a volt meter. You jumpered gauges to check them but what about the senders? What did you jump? |
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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I will check out the full fuel system, I already need to pull the tank to check the gas sending unit, it will probably need replaced. The fuel filter will be done away with eventually, but I've ran them on mud trucks and never had any issues with them, and I know my 440 likes to run hot under the hood. As for the ammeter, I just don't like them and I plan to redo the wiring on the boat and would rather not have the alternator ran to the front of the boat and then to the battery. I prefer voltmeters as I can see how my battery's level is even when my boat isn't running. I've had enough old Dodges to be tired of ammeters and would rather have gauges I like. As for jumping the gauges, I ran a wire directly from the sending unit to the gauge and checked to see if the gauge was working correctly. The oil works as it should, the temp has a new sending unit but still doesn't work. The tachometer was hooked up directly and moved, but sits at 600 rpm when ignition is on (motor off) and jumped only a bit with the motor running and probably moved up to 1500 rpm when the motor was probably close to 4K rpm. I love my gauges and watch them when my motors are running, so having gauges that don't work sucks when you want to diagnose and check how the motor is doing. I've rebuilt motors, motor swapped, rewired, and upgraded my trucks, the boat isn't much different. It will take some time to diagnose and work on everything. While I'm thinking about it, I noticed my boat/garage always smells like gas and I'm assuming is venting from vent on the back of the boat. Is there supposed to be a check valve or anything so it doesn't let all of my gas evaporate when stored? I know there's a line ran straight to the vent which needs to be replaced since it doesn't go high or have a loop so when the boat is in the water and rocking, gas just pours out the back. You can see the evidence on the stickers below the vent. I do appreciate y'alls input and I will take all advice. Right now I'm mainly doing research and I will work on it as I can since work keeps me pretty busy at the moment. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10703 |
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Chau
I thought I'd point out a few things that only weirdos like me notice First is that custom thermostat housing setup that's straight from the plumbing aisle at home depot. Don't know if there's a thermostat in there anywhere. Second, You have a nice new shiny example of an automotive fuel pump, not a marine one. There's no tube to direct leakage from a ruptured diaphragm up to the carburetor and any leakage would spray out the little weep hole into the bilge area. Third You have an Edelbrock carburetor on it, it may or may not be marine. If you find the Model number, it will tell you what it is. For example a 1409 is a marine carburetor and a 1406 is an automotive. Fourth I notice little pieces of masking tape on the distributor cap and what can be seen tells me you have an early 302 firing order but.......it's left hand (normal) rotation. Looks to be 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8 from the pieces of tape that can be read. If it is a LH rotating engine the only problem is you have a RH rotating prop and the only way to do that with a Borg Warner 71c is by having the single reverse clutch plate driving the boat forward. It makes for a very weak forward as far as strength and a very strong reverse since the multiple forward clutch plates are turning the prop backwards. This might all be hard to understand as far as the engine,transmission, prop relationship so if you could post your firing order it might clear up a lot of things. The firing order goes Counter Clockwise around the cap regardless of which way your engine rotates. You could also post which way the pulleys rotate when looking from the front. And last but not least, that giant horn on the deck is the catzazz Not trying to pick on anything (except maybe the horn a little bit) but it's what we weirdos notice and you're looking for input Also Pete already mentioned the fuel filter and fuel line |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10703 |
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Also for a little good news, it's a Mallory marine distributor, you can tell by the brass vent screen visible in some of the photos.
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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I agree, the setup is horrendous and needs to be either swapped back to factory or at least use a setup from a PCM 302. Sadly I don't have the stock setup to swap it back, I wish I did.
The fuel pump is a carter M60389, which is a marine fuel pump and has the tube hooked up to the carb. The picture shown doesn't show it well, but I have other pictures I didn't post that do show more. Had I posted every pic I've taken, there'd be well over 100 pics and people would get tired of looking.
The carb is a 1409, there's a few easy ways to tell it apart from it's automotive cousin the 1406. I have several 1406's laying around and in use on my old Dodges. One quick way to tell the difference is the lack of vacuum ports on the front for the dizzy and one on the back for PCV or other vacuum items isn't drilled/tapped.
This is a reverse rotation motor and still runs that way and runs great when it's getting fuel. The starter is also reverse rotation as it should be. It has the velvet drive 1:1 71C and goes forward when in forward and reverse when reversed. I did not place the tape on the dizzy and bought the boat that way.
I agree, the tape makes no sense and based on the numbers I can read, neither firing order align up to it. I will have to check the wires and see what's going on there. But the crank rotates CCW when looking at it from the drivers seat. And I just realized ford numbers their cylinders completely different than Dodge or Chevy, that's going to annoy the crap out of me. As for the horn, I absolutely hate it and will remove it once I have $100-200 to spend on either electric trumpets or I will be going train horns. Either way they will be chrome and will look 100 times better. But for now, it's legal at least. |
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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If anyone is interested, here's an ad I found for my boat with pictures of the motor being more original with factory water hoses and exhaust manifolds. I wish they previous owner would have kept everything. If I do swap gauges or make any changes to factory parts, I will be keeping everything so that it could easily be swapped back to factory.
https://boats-from-usa.com/correct-craft/correct-craft-mustang-20255 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10703 |
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Hi Chau
Good answers Glad it rotates the right way and the tape is wrong on the cap The whole transmission thing is a non issue I agree on the carburetor too, I didn't see the vacuum ports when I blew up the pictures of the carburetor. Sounds like you know your Edelbrock/Carter/Weber carburetors It must be just hard to see the overflow on the pump, but the 60389 is a marine fuel pump. I'd try running it with a temporary tank hooked up to the fuel pump to narrow down your fuel issue. If it runs good on the temporary tank then your fuel pump is probably not your issue. There were 2 different RH firing orders on the 302's Early was 1 8 7 3 6 2 4 5 Later was 1 8 4 5 6 2 7 3 You'll have one of those. 73 was around the time of the cam and firing order change. And remember the distributor always turns counter clockwise |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10703 |
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If you go to the link below, it'll take you to a housing that's available and will work with your engine and manifolds t stat housing link |
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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Keno, thanks for the tips. I have the overflow from the pump hooked up to the carb, I know it's hard to see in the pictures, but it's there. I'm not new to the motor world, but I am new to Ford. I grew up with my parents having a boat and my best friend has a late 60's (we think) ski boat with a small block chevy in it. While I was thinking about my boat, I just remember that there is a fuel filter or water separator between the tank and the pump, so I will have to inspect that as well. A temporary tank is something I have done many times when testing my truck motors, and I will run multiple tests. I do have fuel pressure gauges, timing lights, etc.... But the main thing is I have to pull the boat out and hook up a water supply, I use a 5 gallon bucket as shown in one of my pics so that the raw water pump does its job still and the city pressure doesn't damage anything. But this all takes time, which lately I don't have much of it free.
Good to know about the firing order, didn't realize there was two, so I will be extra careful before I remove anything so I don't accidentally get it wrong. But the numbers I wrote down from the cap still don't line up with either one you posted, so I don't know what's going on there still. I do appreciate the help. And it looks like a prop shaft and coupler are in my future, but I would like to upgrade to something with a better design. I still don't see why it's not splined with a nut like the prop side is. |
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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I've actually seen this one and thought about buying it. Just need to save up some spending money, but this is the route I'll probably go with. Glad to know I wasn't far off in my search. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10703 |
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Your prop side isn't splined, it's a tapered shaft with a keyway and matches the propeller taper unless you have a custom shaft and propeller of some kind. Your pictures show a normal inboard prop. Some much newer inboards have a splined shaft like an outboard but I 'd be pretty sure ( like 99 and 44/100ths percent) you have a tapered shaft and need a puller to get the prop off |
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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You are correct, I'm thinking of a different boat prop. My Mustang does have the taper shaft and keyway. I just need to replace the shaft and coupler and would like a simpler design, I don't care for interference fit when there are simpler methods to hold it together that won't back out as easily.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Before you condemn an ammeter, I suggest thinking about the differences. Yes, with an ammeter you need to run a heavy gauge wire up and back from the dash but is that real difficult? The ammeter is going to tell you if there's a charge or discharge with the engine running or nor. A voltmeter will not since you can have voltage and still be discharging the battery. I like to know if I'm running only on the battery before I get to the other side of the Lake! You mention the volt meter telling you the battery level. If you plan on using it for that, you have better get a very accurate digital since a few hundredths of a volt can make a big difference as shown in this chart: Your normal analog dash meter will not be close enough. Also, keep in mind the chart shows OPV (open circuit volt) and CCV will also add to the inaccuracy of using a volt meter. for battery condition. Getting back to you checking your gauges, you ran sender wires directly but did you Ohm out the senders? Did you check for the nominal 12 volts at the gauge? |
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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Sorry I haven't responded in a bit, I've been busy. I haven't fully checked the gauges, but I do have new sending units and they spec out. And some of the gauges don't go to their proper position when the key is just turned on.
I'll upload pictures later, but I changed the hacked water cooling setup so it's functioning properly now and cleaned the transmission cooler since it was partially clogged. I also bought new fuel lines (marine) and a new fuel pump and removed the plastic fuel filter and bypassed the water separator for now to rule that out. I'm still having issues getting fuel to the carb, it pumps but doesn't have the volume it should. So my boat is still having running issues. I'll test it more this weekend, I ran out of time this past one. But I'm making progress. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Get that pressure gauge T'd into the fuel line that was recommended. I feel it will give you a better idea of what's up with the pump. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10703 |
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Chau
I'd hook it up to a temporary tank before thinking about the gauge. If the suction is restricted, the discharge pressure on the gauge will be low/erratic and make you think you've got a bad pump when in reality it may be perfectly good and just doesn't have much of anything to pump Does that new Carter look just like the old one that looked like it was pretty new? |
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chau8238
Groupie Joined: August-08-2017 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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The pumps look very similar, here are some more pics. The pics were taken before the fuel lines were replaced. And I sucked on the hose to the fuel pump and fuel comes very easily, plenty in my mouth to prove it. I'm about to buy an electric fuel pump and just bypass the mechanical all together. I will hook up a gas can when I test it some this weekend in the driveway, but I'm still thinking it's pump related.
https://imgur.com/a/02t3h |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10703 |
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Now about that link............., it don't work |
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