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Wet or dry foam - does it really matter?

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Susan's 78 Tique View Drop Down
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    Posted: October-09-2017 at 3:50pm
Hello Proffessional Boat Peeps!
I am a true beginner with my 1978 Ski Tique RESTORATION! Here's my story: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=9594

I have spent hours upon hours reading threads on this site and you guys are awesome!
I plan to post throughout the process and I will have other questions along the way but I have one critical question and really need your feedback. We are in the process of having the stringers/floor replaced and we are now learning about the foam issues. After extensive research on CCF, I decided to have him completely strip the hull down to nothing. However, the guy working on the boat (don't worry, he is very good and knows what he is doing) says the foam is dry and "so we really want to remove it"? However, the stringers are completely rotted!

Is it possible that the foam is dry? Another "boat restoration professional" told me that there is NO way that it's dry and that there is water in there somewhere and it needs to come out! Should i stick to the plan and ASSUME that it's wet and get it OUT?! What would you do?
My '78 Ski Tique Family Boat
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 3:58pm
Im not an expert, as I have never torn into one, but I have read enough on here to believe that if your stringers are that bad, the foam has been soaked. Anyway, how would you do a respectable job of stringer replacement without taking out most of the foam anyway. I hate to say it, but I will for Pete, but I wonder about the "he is very good and knows what he is doing" thing with the assessment that the foam is fine. Sounds to me like he doesnt want to mess with it...and it is a mess. Well that's my uneducated two cents, but I bet there are others here that will agree. I say take it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan's 78 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 4:06pm
Thanks 75 Tique! I've had a few people question my boat guys ability also...for the same reason as you've said. But once i did my research and spoke to several people in my area, I received 100% approval that my guy was the best! That said, I do think he's probably dreading it and would prefer to avoid it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by 75 Tique 75 Tique wrote:

Im not an expert, as I have never torn into one, but I have read enough on here to believe that if your stringers are that bad, the foam has been soaked. Anyway, how would you do a respectable job of stringer replacement without taking out most of the foam anyway. I hate to say it, but I will for Pete, but I wonder about the "he is very good and knows what he is doing" thing with the assessment that the foam is fine. Sounds to me like he doesnt want to mess with it...and it is a mess. Well that's my uneducated two cents, but I bet there are others here that will agree. I say take it out.

Larry,
You couldn't have said it better. You took the words right out of my mouth!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 4:09pm
Don't worry Sue

Pretty soon some guy named Pete will come along and tell you to tear everything out if you want to do a really good job.

He'll probably throw in some descriptive phrases like "backyard hack" and a few others I can't think of right now but I'd listen to him

Then tell your restoration guy what YOU want and don't let him change your mind
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Susan's 78 Tique Susan's 78 Tique wrote:

Thanks 75 Tique! I've had a few people question my boat guys ability also...for the same reason as you've said. But once i did my research and spoke to several people in my area, I received 100% approval that my guy was the best! That said, I do think he's probably dreading it and would prefer to avoid it!

So how is he planning on a total stringer replacement without removing the foam?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 4:11pm
You came along before me Pete

That's the guy I was talking about Sue, the P is for Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan's 78 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 4:14pm
Yea, that's what everyone keeps telling me. Supposedly, he's cutting "some of the foam" out but I'm hearing that it's a slack way to do it. In his defense, i think he wants to be sure that I'm ok with what we do and I've been very concerned about removing the foam...with the intent to NOT replace it. BUT, i haven't come across anyone who has said that they've had any issues with the boat post foam removal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 4:21pm
Susan,
I know you have been doing your reading but wonder if you have come across stringer threads where foam was not replaced. It's an option members have done and something to think about.

Also, if he is just removing some of the foam, I don't feel it would give him enough room to properly grind out the bilge coating for bonding the new stringer glass to the exiting hull.


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[QUOTE=8122pbrainard] Susan,
I know you have been doing your reading but wonder if you have come across stringer threads where foam was not replaced. It's an option members have done and something to think about.

Yes, that's what i planned to do. I want to remove the foam and NOT replace. From what I've read, there doesn't appear to be any repercussions from those who have left the foam out so I'm leaning to removing it all and NOT replacing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wisky Badger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 7:17pm
Removing the foam is the easy part of a stringer job.   I would probably start looking for a new boat guy. Like Pete said I don't know how you will be able to grind the hull properly with out removing the foam. Even if your foam isn't wet on top it is probably wet at the hull and is most likely soaked around the battery box and air box.
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The foam is the easy part!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 8:03pm
If the primary stringers are shot then the secondary are probably bad also because they are only 1/2 the thickness.   You have to remove the foam and grind the hull clean.
All said, I don't think that $7500 for the complete job including the floor, carpet and resetting the drive train would be too far out of line. It is a huge job.
As far as looking for another boat,   you might be getting just what you have. Good luck. Duane jmo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

As far as looking for another boat,   you might be getting just what you have. Good luck. Duane jmo


+1 ....   Besides, sounds like being a family boat purchased new all those years ago there's a certain sentimental value.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wisky Badger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 8:59pm
Sorry I meant to look for a new boat repairman not a new boat.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 9:16pm
I did a complete stringer job on my '85 there is no way to do a complete professional job without removing "ALL" of the foam.
The real choice is do you put it back in or not I opted not to but that's a whole different discussion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan's 78 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

If the primary stringers are shot then the secondary are probably bad also because they are only 1/2 the thickness.   You have to remove the foam and grind the hull clean.
All said, I don't think that $7500 for the complete job including the floor, carpet and resetting the drive train would be too far out of line. It is a huge job.
As far as looking for another boat,   you might be getting just what you have. Good luck. Duane jmo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan's 78 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 9:39pm
I think there is some confusion...This is not a boat that i have purchased (not sure what the $7,500 quote is from). This is a family boat and we are restoring this for sentimental reasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan's 78 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by gt40KS gt40KS wrote:

Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

As far as looking for another boat,   you might be getting just what you have. Good luck. Duane jmo


+1 ....   Besides, sounds like being a family boat purchased new all those years ago there's a certain sentimental value.


Correct... this is a family boat...it's the original.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan's 78 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-09-2017 at 9:49pm
All great and incredibly helpful comments! So, here's the deal...the boat is at the shop. The engine has been pulled and the process has begun...so i want to manage this the best i can to ensure this is done right. I hear everyone and I now know that REMOVING the foam is the right thing to do. I will have this discussion with "the shop" and I have faith that this will be done right. That said, i'll keep everyone posted with follow-up and images with hopes that I can help others!

Based on all the feedback, i will remove all the foam and gut it...as originally planned.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2017 at 4:33am
Originally posted by Susan's 78 Tique Susan's 78 Tique wrote:

I think there is some confusion...This is not a boat that i have purchased (not sure what the $7,500 quote is from). This is a family boat and we are restoring this for sentimental reasons.


I would not proceed with any shop without a "Not to Exceed" dollar figure.   I still think the total figure will be around my guesstimate. Total gutting is the only way to do it right. Refoaming as you stated is a personal choice. I did not refoam my boat and can tell a noice difference but that is about all. I did add foam to the deck area when it was upside down, but that foam is for flotation only. It will only see water if it is sinking. Then hopefully it will stay afloat for retrieval purposes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2017 at 5:08am
Originally posted by Susan's 78 Tique Susan's 78 Tique wrote:

i want to manage this the best i can to ensure this is done right. i'll keep everyone posted with follow-up and images with hopes that I can help others!

Yes, please us informed and do post plenty of pictures.
Originally posted by Susan's 78 Tique Susan's 78 Tique wrote:

I've had a few people question my boat guys ability also...for the same reason as you've said. But once i did my research and spoke to several people in my area, I received 100% approval that my guy was the best!

Susan,
I'm confused. You've had some people question his ability and then received 100% approval from others? Could you expound?

We have seen stringer jobs that were done by so called "pros" that are no were close to correct and one were the member boat owner ended up ripping out all the "pros" work and starting over!! Post pictures ASAP during his work.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2017 at 9:02am
As you can see, our radar is bleeping wildly.

Removing the rot-o-matic foam should be the most satisfying step of the job. Suggesting working around it, is a nightmare enough to question his methods, craftsmanship and quality.

Anyone who has done this job before, has pictures of their work. We could tell a lot if you can source some for us to view.

If he doesn't have pictures of prior stringer jobs, he's hiding something, best pick up the boat, and find somebody else that is competent with this type of work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2017 at 9:32am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Pretty soon some guy named Pete will come along and tell you to tear everything out if you want to do a really good job.

He'll probably throw in some descriptive phrases like "backyard hack" and a few others I can't think of right now but I'd listen to him

Ken,
I've been holding back on my descriptions!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2017 at 9:32am
Well we are probably too deep into it now to pull it home, and hopefully it will turn out alright. I am still skeptical. He may be good at some stuff and gotten good reviews for engine repair or maybe even refreshing or detailing, but a stringer job is a whole different animal and as mentioned above, there have been some pretty sad hack jobs by "professionals" Stringer jobs are best done by the boat owner where it is a commitment to quality and an act of love, or by a highly reputable shop like this guy who will charge a fortune. Its tough to find a reasonable price and a decent job. All that being said, I hope we are wrong and this guy treats you right, because we want to see you at White Lake next April and at Badin Lake next October. Go to the shop on a regular basis so you can see what he is up to and so he knows you are paying attention, and let the folks here know what you see so "irregularities" can be caught before it is buttoned up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2017 at 9:38am
Susan,
From all the input, I hope you understand our concerns as well as understand that it's possible that you have not found the proper person to do the stringer job for you. Get us more information.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolleronariver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2017 at 3:36pm
Just out of curiosity, what is he charging? After doing mine I said I wouldn't do one for less then $3k plus material cost which would be close to $2k. It's a huge job!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2017 at 5:06pm
Maybe there’s a confusion as to the term “working around the foam”?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan's 78 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-11-2017 at 12:22pm
Thank you so, so much for everyone's input and concern. I instantly feel like you're all holding my hand through this and it's truly appreciated!! So, I'll respond to all your questions over the next few days. I am acting on everyone's input and i'll keep you posted!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-12-2017 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by rolleronariver rolleronariver wrote:

Just out of curiosity, what is he charging? After doing mine I said I wouldn't do one for less then $3k plus material cost which would be close to $2k. It's a huge job!!

I would also like to know what a shop charges for a job like this??
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