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Starting Engine in cold weather

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Blamey View Drop Down
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    Posted: November-12-2017 at 11:52am
So I am out at the lake today and had someone who has came to look at the boat.

Temp is around 40 but it was freezing last night. I tried to start the boat and the boat fired up but I quickly noticed the water pump wasn't turning. Shut the engine down wait a while with the engine in the sun. Went to start it, the water pump is turning and the engine is turning but it's not firing now.

Did I mess up by trying to start the engine when it was still too cold?

Symptom is very similar to if the lanyard was disconnected. Engine turns but won't fire.

Engine is a GT40.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 1:01pm
No connection between no-fire & starting at 40 deg.

I'd check fuses & relays next.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 1:34pm
If the water pump was frozen other areas in the block could be frozen.
I hope there is no freeze damage.
I agree there is probably no connection between frozen water pump and your no start issue.
Make sure your electric fuel pumps are working.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 1:44pm
I winterized on Thursday. But left the water pump in place because I knew I was taking the boat out today.

I didn't fill with AF.

I am concerned that turning the engine over while it was still cold did some damage, even though I had drained it. Could a small amount of frozen water cause an issue?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 3:33pm
Depends on where it was stored. Hopefully not.
A freeze issue should not affect the starting issue.
There is a common GT40 problem site on here that can help track the starting issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 4:26pm
Paul,
I too don't feel there's any connection between the freeze and the no start. I'd say something got wet from condensation with the cold and then warming up.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 7:23pm
Thanks for the help.

I agree I don't think the water pump and no fire issues are related other than that it was cold.

I do think that the issue is most likely a fuel issue. As far as I can tell the HPP appears to be running and the fact that the boat originally fired up and idled for about 30 seconds, before dying, makes me think that it started with fuel in the FCC and then died after this ran out.

My questions are, do we suspect the Low Pressure Pump?
What's the best way for me to test the low pressure pump?


Assuming I drained the block properly, any issues with me trying to start the engine while it was still freezing. I feel very stupid that it didn't occur to me that it might be a bad idea to try start the boat after temps hit the teens over night.

While I don't think the frozen water pump is a big issue, Anything else I could've damaged?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 7:28pm
The Low pressure fuel pump is always a suspect - if there is no fuel in the FCC then it is very likely the LPP.   You can start it cold and let it warm up and run... but water in the pump is a problem for sure... and if there is water there then likely there is water in the hose that feeds it and if that is frozen that will cause trouble too. A chunk of ice in a inlet hose cost me and Tim Benjamin an hour or two today in fact...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by Blamey Blamey wrote:

While I don't think the frozen water pump is a big issue, Anything else I could've damaged?

I really doubt there's anything else damaged. The RWP is out in the open without any mass to store the BTU's. You say you drained the block so it's good. Did you drain the manifolds? Even if you didn't, there's plenty of cast iron there so they take some time and cold before there's a problem.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 8:26pm
Thanks guys.

Joe, once the pump thawed I still wasn't getting water through the system. After some work I found several blocks of ice clogging up the pipes.


Pete, yes drained everything that should've been drained. Block, Manifolds that U thing, v drive and transmission. It was pretty cold last night.

I'm going to order an LPP and pick some relays and then try troubleshoot this on Thursday.

Anything else I should be considering other than the LPP.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2017 at 5:58pm
So after doing some reading and one other possible reason for the no start I have found is the fused wire from the battery to the EEC. I did have the battery out of the boat charging and when I put it back, didn't tighten this fused wire correctly. I noticed this later after the boat wouldn't start.

Some guess the loose wire migh've blown the fuse or breaker but would the HP pump still run if this fuse was blown? I was able to confirm the pump was running when turning the key on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2017 at 6:15pm
If you have not ordered a pump yet check this one out and save yourself almost a buck fifty over marine dealers-
Carter P 4389   just google or ebay it. someone will have it in the low 60's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2017 at 6:36pm
Thanks for the tip Gary, is it a direct replacement? The saving is closer to $ 150 then $50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2017 at 7:09pm
Have not used one myself,but have heard from others. Ordering one this spring when I convert mine to a FCC. It is a marine pump too which is great. One thing I found out about PCM pumps is that they are outsourced and if they do have markings on them they are PCM's numbers not the oem's. So if you call the manufacturer they cannot cross reference them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2017 at 3:14pm
Well, after many hours of reading and armed with a several spare parts including a new low pressure pump. I went to the boat today. Turn the ignition on, verified both pumps were running, tested the fuel.pressure at the rail at 40psi. Started the engine and she fired right up.

Not sure what wasn't working in the cold on Sunday. My money is on a frozen anti siphon value but really I have no idea. Don't plan to run the boat in that kind of cold again so dont think it is an issue.

At least now I'll be ready if that LPP does fail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2017 at 9:06am
The anti syphon valve won't freeze unless you have a bunch of water in the fuel that would freeze. Pretty sure it wasn't cold enough for the fuel itself to freeze :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2017 at 11:33am
Certainly not ethanol fuel.

The anti-siphon valve is frozen brass already lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2017 at 3:38pm
Glad you have it fixed and not too much head ache. I think the boys are on to something with the possibility of water in the fuel system freezing.
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