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Cold weather pondering-hull design '70's SN

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MourningWood View Drop Down
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    Posted: December-13-2017 at 10:55pm
Here are some more weights:
Alternator w/ bracket: 11.0
Velvet drive 71c: 95
Battery: 51
Rear center floor: 26
Motor box (upholstered): 59.5

Biggest surprises so far, the cast iron timing cover, the super-heavy exhaust manifolds, and the motor box. And the Velvet drive.

So with the changes I plan to make, this will take almost 300 lbs. off the water.
I don't know if a 14.5% weight reduction alone will get the hoped-for results in wake improvement.

Also, without Photobucket, what other easy ways can I post pics? Thanks
1994 Ski Nautique "Riot"
1964 Dunphy X-55 "One 'N Dun"

'I measured twice, cut three times, and it's still too short!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-13-2017 at 8:48pm
Here is Joe's build-
The fiberglass work does not start until page 4 but the whole thread is a great read
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-13-2017 at 8:43pm
Donald,
Thanks for the tip to Tim B and Joe F. Just doing some materials research and would like the stringer fix (if necessary) to last. I got a good price on the boat and thought the fix could afford some good planning before I start buying stuff.

Thanks again.
G. Neil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-13-2017 at 8:36pm
Greg,

Several on this site, Tim B., Joe F have used CAD to design and cut the stringers and such from composite board. They put the stringers back as composite.

Donald
1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-13-2017 at 8:16pm
Good luck. Nobody seems to have wanted to pay for Kevlar or carbon fiber but they sure would be the best fabrics available. I am looking forward to your build!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-13-2017 at 8:02pm
Hi Keno,
Thanks for the sage advice. I'll start a new thread and not confuse this one. I was thinking about weight with the new floor/stringer/foam etc was concerned. That was the logic.

I'll start a new thread and not confuse this one.
Cheers!
G. Neil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-13-2017 at 6:55pm
Hi Greg

My first thought is that you should start a new thread you can call your own, instead of tacking on to this one

It'll be easier to keep track of things that way without other peoples issues/problems mixed in.

Otherwise if you've lurked here a while, you know somebody (most likely named Pete) will want to know where the pictures are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-13-2017 at 6:26pm
Hey guys,
Im new to the group and have been loving the conversations through the forums. Thank you!

I recently picked up an 81 with less than 1K hours, and considering the age, its in good shape. As most of the early fiberglass SN its likely that ill be doing a stringer job in the near future. With this in mind, Im currently doing some research into Coosa board as a substitute for doug fur stringers. I've read many forums and understand the different arguments pro and con. One topic i haven't seen is the one where modern materials like Coosa are used with carbon fiber or kevlar. Any thoughts in this direction?

Additionally, I'm interested in fully documenting my rehab and recording the updates and improvements including pattern making for the stringers and related bulkheads. unless i can buy them form a reliable source. Any one know of such a thing? As I've worked in the design field for the past 25+ years, I'm computer capable. (CAD Sketch-up etc.)

Any info would be greatly appreciated.
   
G. Neil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-13-2017 at 3:48pm
In that case we can settle this on Deep Lake. Quinner will need to set the course up and this could be his motivation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-12-2017 at 11:54am
Nobody acknowledged or said anything about that old thread I linked above about reducing weight. But recent posts have talked about weight reduction other than the engine components.

Just by hull adjustments look how Paul was able to change how his boat sat in the water.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-12-2017 at 9:17am
Originally posted by uk1979 uk1979 wrote:

I found working on my gen 2 SNWeights

Roger,
Looks like documentation used for calculating flotation!

EDIT: Keith, How about putting the document Roger found in the misc./reference section?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uk1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-12-2017 at 5:16am
I found working on my gen 2 SNWeights
Lets have a go
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-11-2017 at 11:13pm
I figure the complete engine with manifolds and transmission weighs 856 pounds

This link explains where I came up with that number. see page 15

I think the 856 is with a B/W transmission since that's what the diagrams in the manual show

The whole boat according to CC weighed 2100 pounds dry.

I borrowed Pete's abacus and came up with a hull weight of about 1250 pounds as a ball park number for the hull, just to give you an idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MourningWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-11-2017 at 10:33pm
Yes, I do plan on weighing the hull while motor/trans are out.
As nice as the boat appears to be, pretty sure it has picked up some ballast in 36 years.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-11-2017 at 4:21pm
Maybe you should weigh the hull, or check under the floor, there could be a lot of water weight in the foam

Or you could just tell yourself it's an 81 that's bone dry under the floor and hasn't packed on any pounds over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-11-2017 at 3:59pm
Doubtful you'll find an aluminum timing cover with a water pump mount but you could go with a crank mount pump. Ditch the circulation pump like HM did but be prepared that they cool differently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-11-2017 at 2:55pm
You could slap in a new style permanent magnet starter, it weighs about half of what your old one does.

Advertised weight of 9 pounds, compared to advertised weight of 18 pounds for the old style.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-11-2017 at 2:12pm
I definitely would and did go to aluminum on at least the first three items..
Water pump housings and timing covers are a little more difficult to scrounge the proper parts in aluminum
Keep it as original as YOU want it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MourningWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-11-2017 at 2:07pm
Some weights so far:
Intake: 47 lbs.
Heads, complete: 50 ea.
Ex maniforld (stock PCM): 50 ea.
Water pump (iron) 14
Timing cover: 13
Motor mounts (compl): 13 ea
Trans mounts: 12.5 ea.
Starter: 17
Thermostat hsg: 9
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-11-2017 at 9:54am
Yea those exhausts and a stock intake are not on the light side, velvet drives are not either. Spend the bucks and get some Hi Tek's to lighten the load
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MourningWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2017 at 11:37pm
Picked up the '81 on Monday evening. Had a couple other projects (cars) to wrap up, but managed to pop out the motor/trans and teardown.
Some of the Ford industrial engine/PCM marine conversion pieces are HEAVY!
I'll post a tally of weights of some of the components I'd like to replace. I think I can get 150+ lbs. out of the drivetrain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2017 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Excellent idea Todd only one problem, Google Illinois route 176, he doesn't go any further south than that

Gary,
176?? It's more like Wi. 29!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2017 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by Orlando76 Orlando76 wrote:


bring yours to Sunnyland and give me a pull so I can eat crow! There were definitely some vintage boats with great wakes but tracked like crap.


Excellent idea Todd only one problem, Google Illinois route 176, he doesn't go any further south than that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MourningWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2017 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by Orlando76 Orlando76 wrote:

[QUOTE=8122pbrainard] [QUOTE=Orlando76]

I just can’t imagine a wood boat from the 60’s outperforming the advances and technology put in the 196. When I say 196, I mean a true 196 (TSC +) and not the NWZ. And I can’t imagine it tracking nearly as good with a 190lb skier heavy on the line. I would love to ski and drive one in the course as I’m always wanting to ski different boats especially vintage.. bring yours to Sunnyland and give me a pull so I can eat crow! There were definitely some vintage boats with great wakes but tracked like crap.


I think I limited my performance 'comparison' to specifically wake shape. No claim was made that a Dunphy X-55 would "outperform" a mid-to-late 90's era ski boat in every respect. Just that the wake height, shape, and softness would be on par with, or in some cases, exceed those craft. Let's keep things there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2017 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Pete, If you read what he referenced you might notice the tracking fin option on the SN before the x55 ever existed

Ken,
Thanks for the civil response. I now stand corrected that Leo did utilize a tracking fin and CC carried that through as an option when the they started building the 1st generation SN in 61. The X55 was produced between 63 and 65.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2017 at 1:22pm
Pete, If you read what he referenced you might notice the tracking fin option on the SN before the x55 ever existed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2017 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Pete, are you familiar with our reference section?

Tim,
Wow, thanks for the information. I never knew CCfan had a reference section.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2017 at 12:32pm
Pete, are you familiar with our reference section? What was the first year for the x55?

http://correctcraftfan.com/reference/bview.asp?id=52#image2

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2017 at 11:17am
One item I find interesting is Dunphy incorporated tracking fins on the X55 hull design and that was years before CC used them.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2017 at 10:21am
So, to summarize, we need a Dunphy/196 ski-off on a course that's 10 ft. away from shore and Larry's neighbor will film underwater hull performance from his sub.

I've never seen a Dunphy either. I think it's ok for me to say that I'm pretty confident a 196 is better to ski behind, just like Todd. Some things just are common sense. A lot more than raw wake height goes into evaluating a slalom boat.
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