Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Leaking Cylinder
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Leaking Cylinder

 Post Reply Post Reply   
Author
jerry.nichols@m View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November-05-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry.nichols@m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Leaking Cylinder
    Posted: November-30-2017 at 10:47am
Does this sound right? I took my '07 211, 5.7, 330hp (550 hours) in to be winterized and I asked them to look at the engine which was idling a little bit rough. Engine smoothed out at 100rpm and higher. I was thinking bad gas, or gas filter. Boat shop said number 7 cylinder had 90% leakage. Need to pull motor and send to machine shop. Looking at $4-5k to fix. Boat has been maintained regularly. Oil change about every 50 hours. Boat has never given me an ounce of problems before. Two questions, does this sound right and should it be good as new when finished?
Back to Top
Gary S View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: November-30-2006
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 14096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 11:05am
If it were me I would have asked them where that 90% is going- exhaust, intake or crankcase. Might be wise to get a second opinion don't you think ?
69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-06-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10605
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 11:29am
I guess from this you can assume they did a leakdown test on the engine.

90% leakage would mean you're driving around in a v7 with one dead cylinder just going along for the ride.

How's it run otherwise, like when it smooths out above 1000 rpm all the way up to full throttle.

I'd ask the shop for more detail and like Gary said, get a second opinion from someplace else

Back to Top
jerry.nichols@m View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November-05-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry.nichols@m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 12:03pm
Typo in my original post: engine runs smooth from 1000rpm and higher.
Back to Top
Duane in Indy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-26-2015
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 12:42pm
Not enough info
Like said above "where is it leaking?"   Second opinion for sure, and be there when they leak it. May just need an upper end fix.
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)
Back to Top
baitkiller View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-11-2011
Location: SW Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 1693
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 12:59pm
90% is catastrophic. If 90% is true than the chances are overwhelming that work will be needed to both top and bottom. Further testing is a waste of time. Its toast.
Me? I would tear it down and fix it myself. but you aren't me.
MMotors has a screaming deal on a NEW, not rebuilt long block/ $2900
Just drop this off at the shop and tell them to change it.
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/350ci-vortec-base-marine-engine-1996-current-replacement-p-109.html
You are also (likely) going to need exhaust manifolds and risers. #7 tells me it was water in the manifold entering through the exhaust valve. 7 is is the furthest downhill in a ski boat.
Jesus was a bare-footer.............
Back to Top
Duane in Indy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-26-2015
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Further testing is a waste of time. Its toast.


Really
Guess that rules out:    carbon under exhaust valve, burnt valve stuck valve, ect
Stand by my   "second opinion autopsy" idea before pulling an engine and disassembling cause so and so's mechanic said "90%"   You could get lucky here, but not always   Removing and replacing is my last option    JMO



























Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)
Back to Top
baitkiller View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-11-2011
Location: SW Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 1693
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 2:01pm
Let me clear that up a little. The heads coming off anyway and then you'll know for sure.
You know the heads coming off so why go chasing after silly crap? It is now time to strip and inspect not spend $110 an hour for some AMI graduate mouth breather at the dealership to make his best guess.

Better?
Jesus was a bare-footer.............
Back to Top
baitkiller View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-11-2011
Location: SW Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 1693
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 2:02pm
(I said if that 90% is true)
Jesus was a bare-footer.............
Back to Top
rolleronariver View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: May-24-2016
Location: Rogers, AR
Status: Offline
Points: 195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolleronariver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 2:04pm
I wouldn't assume that it's toast yet. Like several guys said, find out where it is leaking from, a dropped valve could cause 90% leakage too. I do think you would hear some noise though if the valve was that messed up. I also think you would notice a power drop even above 1,000rpm. Just my $.02. I'm not a master mechanic but I do like working on things and I've seen valve and head issues cause things like this. I also agree that the number 7 cylinder could be water damage since 7 and 8 or the two lowest cylinders.
92 Sport nautique
Back to Top
Duane in Indy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-26-2015
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Let me clear that up a little. The heads coming off anyway and then you'll know for sure.
You know the heads coming off so why go chasing after silly crap? It is now time to strip and inspect not spend $110 an hour for some AMI graduate mouth breather at the dealership to make his best guess.

Better?


Yep.
Keep it as original as YOU want it
        1978 Mustang (modified)
Back to Top
phatsat67 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: March-13-2006
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 6147
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 2:46pm
I 100% never trust anyone who says the first option is IT'S JUNK BUILD NEW MOTOR.

Back to Top
MrMcD View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-28-2014
Location: Folsom, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3581
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 3:42pm
Pull the number 7 spark plug and examine it. Post pictures here we can help.
Do a compression check on this cylinder and see what you have.
A leak down will tell you more but if you have 160+ compression the problem is elsewhere.
Vortex engines have high compression.
Back to Top
63 Skier View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: October-06-2006
Location: Concord, NH
Status: Offline
Points: 4229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 4:02pm
Jerry, some great advice above. What is your winter storage plan? I ask because if you have the dealer winterize it, then store it yourself, it would allow you to get it to someone for a compression test or do it yourself. Like others I think it's worth taking some time or some money to look further into the problem. Pulling the engine and rebuilding will solve the problem for 4-5 thousand at the dealer, whether there was a terminal problem or not!
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
Back to Top
SNobsessed View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: October-21-2007
Location: IA
Status: Offline
Points: 7102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 8:15pm
It could possibly be they meant that cyl was at 90% (10% leakage) which would be a bit more believable on such a new engine.

If so, it's not going to leave you stranded anytime soon.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

Ben Franklin
Back to Top
63 Skier View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: October-06-2006
Location: Concord, NH
Status: Offline
Points: 4229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2017 at 8:50pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

It could possibly be they meant that cyl was at 90% (10% leakage) which would be a bit more believable on such a new engine.

If so, it's not going to leave you stranded anytime soon.

Can't imagine they would be quoting a removal and rebuild if #7 was 10% down in compression.
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
Back to Top
Bri892001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-27-2008
Location: Boston MA
Status: Offline
Points: 4945
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2017 at 9:11pm
Would an engine with mechanical damage and serious loss of compression smooth out over 1,000 rpms?? Does it smooth out over 1,000 in neutral, under a load, or both?

I'd definitely be ruling out simple ignition problems like cap, rotor etc. before pulling the block.
Back to Top
63 Skier View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: October-06-2006
Location: Concord, NH
Status: Offline
Points: 4229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2017 at 9:27pm
In my experience 7 cylinder engines can be remarkably smooth, I've even been fooled on a V-Twin tractor engine for a short time not realizing was running on one cylinder. RPMs mask a lot of things. I believe Joe might have experience with running a 7 cylinder engine as well.
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-02-2017 at 10:36am
I hope Jerry comes back with more information.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
jerry.nichols@m View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November-05-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry.nichols@m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-05-2017 at 11:56am
Thank you all for helping me with my issue. I am going to the boat shop this Saturday (its about 200 miles away) with questions I've collected from you all from this forum.

I will return and post my finds. Please stay tuned and thank you all again for helping me.



Back to Top
baitkiller View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-11-2011
Location: SW Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 1693
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-05-2017 at 7:15pm
Thank you Jerry for not whisping away into the vapor.
We are genuinely interested so please do come back and enlighten us with your findings.
John
Jesus was a bare-footer.............
Back to Top
jbear View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-21-2005
Location: Lake Wales FL.
Status: Offline
Points: 8193
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2017 at 1:52am
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Thank you Jerry for not whisping away into the vapor.
We are genuinely interested so please do come back and enlighten us with your findings.
John


+1....



john
"Loud pipes save lives"



AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"...
Back to Top
Hollywood View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: February-04-2004
Location: Twin Lakes, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 13510
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2017 at 2:10am
Solid advice there jbear. Knew you'd be along shorty, can't pass up an engine repair thread...
Back to Top
sport1999 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: May-10-2015
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 313
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sport1999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2017 at 10:33am
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2017 at 10:38am
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Thank you Jerry for not whisping away into the vapor.
We are genuinely interested so please do come back and enlighten us with your findings.
John

Jerry,
I too want to thank you for not forgetting about us. We all have seen some come on with a problem, we try to help offering advice and then hear nothing back. It's disappointing since I and I'm sure others would like to hear if we were able to help.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
jbear View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-21-2005
Location: Lake Wales FL.
Status: Offline
Points: 8193
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2017 at 11:41pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Solid advice there jbear. Knew you'd be along shorty, can't pass up an engine repair thread...


as you know...I understand none of what these guys are talking about....but I sure like the way they say it.


john
"Loud pipes save lives"



AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"...
Back to Top
jerry.nichols@m View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: November-05-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerry.nichols@m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-12-2017 at 5:21pm
Hi Guys,

I'm back from the dealer with some more info:

1. I independently (second opinion) confirmed close to zero compression on #8 cylinder (not number 7 as previously posted).
2. Mechanic pulled valve covers and found a tuliped valve. Mechanic said this was most likely cause by overheating. I'm a bit surprised at this as I'm a pretty conscious gauge watcher, not just upon start up, but while under way as well.)
3. Oil was not dirty at all
4. Mechanic stated that since #8 cylinder had no compression, it was just going along for the ride thanks to the other 7 cylinders.
5. Mechanic said we still need to pull the motor and have it machined to re-surface the cylinder before replacing the tuliped valve.
6. Mechanic said I may want to consider re-surfacing all 8 cylinder as the incremental cost to do all of them is fairly minor since the motor is out already.
7. I've asked the shop to write up the complete estimate which he is doing now, but the "rough" estimated is now $1500-$2000.

Depending on the cost, I am leaning toward resurfacing all 8 cylinders. Does this sound like a good idea?

What do you all think of this information?

Back to Top
rolleronariver View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: May-24-2016
Location: Rogers, AR
Status: Offline
Points: 195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolleronariver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-12-2017 at 5:45pm
Sounds like this guys knows more about engines then the first guy. That price doesn't sound horrible if he's doing all of the work but I do all of my own work so I could be wrong.
92 Sport nautique
Back to Top
baitkiller View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: October-11-2011
Location: SW Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 1693
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-12-2017 at 5:51pm
I think that sounds cheap. I also don't buy the overheat but whatevs...I still think youll find a corroded valve stem / seat as cause of the bad valve and glazed cylinder walls. Was the pushrod bent?
150 ring set
250 gasket set
Big and small end bearing sets? ~75 ish?
Plus valve job. That has to be >500 these days right?.
and labor.
Ill wait for the others.
Thanks for the update.
Jesus was a bare-footer.............
Back to Top
81nautique View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-03-2005
Location: Big Rock, Il
Status: Offline
Points: 5762
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-12-2017 at 7:15pm
From personal experience I have seen tuliped valves on a fuel injected motor that had a bad high pressure fuel pump. Run em hard, it leans out and proceeds to melt valves. Your cooling system may still be functioning properly but this is a lean fuel condition. It happens quick. Your boat should go into limp mode if it's overheating but it's not. I am certain this is fuel related.

If the motor has to come out do all 8 holes, get the heads repaired and put it all back together but don't run it until you thoroughly check the fuel system. Price for all that work sounds very reasonable.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2024 | Bagley Productions, LLC