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Modern Materials for Stringer Rehab

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    Posted: December-14-2017 at 10:12am
Hey guys,
Im new to the group and have been loving the conversations through the forums. Thank you!

I recently picked up an SN '80 with less than 1K hours, and considering the age, its in good shape. As most of the early fiberglass SN its likely that ill be doing a stringer job in the near future. With this in mind, Im currently doing some research into Coosa board as a substitute for doug fur stringers. I've read many forums and understand the different arguments pro and con. One topic i haven't seen is the one where modern materials like Coosa are used with carbon fiber or kevlar. Any thoughts in this direction?

Additionally, I'm interested in fully documenting my rehab and recording the updates and improvements including pattern making for the stringers and related bulkheads. unless i can buy them form a reliable source. Any one know of such a thing? As I've worked in the design field for the past 25+ years, I'm computer capable. (CAD Sketch-up etc.)

Any info would be greatly appreciated.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 11:27am
You could call US Composites, which sells such materials. They might be able to provide assistance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 11:49am
I think it would be overkill. Look how long they lasted originally with what CC used. Use quality conventional materials along with the Coosa and quality workmanship and you'd be good to go IMHO. Either that or just do the glass build up with nice crisp 20's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 11:56am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

I think it would be overkill. Look how long they lasted originally with what CC used. Use quality conventional materials along with the Coosa and quality workmanship and you'd be good to go IMHO. Either that or just do the glass build up with nice crisp 20's

I too feel Kevlar and carbon would be overkill. Glass and epoxy would be my choice plus less expensive.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 12:04pm
Hi Guys,

Great quote on the crisp 20"s. I have less of those and more of the time and craftsmanship required no matter the materials. so If only to satisfy my curiosity i feel i need to at least dream of a world where everything is possible. Ha...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 12:06pm
... I'm sure i will bow down to your sage advise and well thought wisdom in the months to come. Thank you!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 12:12pm
Nothing wrong with dreaming Greg. Joe and Tim are the go to guys on Coosa builds. Not sure if Tim had a thread on his or not,I would be surprised if there wasn't. Someone will point you in the right direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 12:20pm
Ok, here is another idea....(slightly off topic)

Dust collection during the stringer demo and prep. Has anyone heard of grinding and sanding with water?

I know this may sound obvious (gel coat wet sanding on the exterior) or even ironic, but the boat is a sort of bowl and the waste could be concentrated in a container for disposal with a simple filtering sys. also it might help with the itchy factor and clean-up could be managed on an ongoing basis.

Any thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 12:24pm
Yes, Indeed! I lost some sleep last night reading Tim's treads. Loved them and learned a lot. His treads brought me back to my CNY lake where i grew up and where i still visit family. A great series of comments and advice from the CCF community. Cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 12:32pm
ps.... I've tried to post some images, without success. not sure whats up yet. I will keep trying as i know ill never make it to Grand Poobah without some good quality pics for the crew. any tips there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 12:35pm
You may be confusing the players as JoeinNY and I are about 4.5hrs apart.

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16014
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 12:40pm
oops, I forgot to mention Joe. I think I got him confused with Tim. Sorry guys. Ive been devouring your treads and got a few mixed up. Joe's coosa stringer build is a bar well placed. I wonder if the coosa would support an 440 turbo arrangement?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 12:46pm
Yes, so sorry for the mix-up. Tim and joe seem to be synonymous with coosa builds in this forum.

still a newbie...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 1:01pm
I think several here have used this -

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by Gneil Gneil wrote:

Joe's coosa stringer build is a bar well placed. I wonder if the coosa would support an 440 turbo arrangement?


Close to 10 years in and I am confident my Coosa unibody boat would hold just about anything thrown at it, its been beaten savagely by waves regularly, been rained on, snowed in, set on fire, filled up with water over the floor numerous times, pulled enough skiers to bend the pylon, fed enough torque to twist off prop shafts, and trailered tens of thousands of miles. It still feels as solid as the day it was built.

Regarding the more expensive materials it becomes pretty hard to justify, most of the areas the glass layup is doing more than one thing, like providing impact resistance, sealing materials from water, or holding screws, and not just resisting tensile force. The build up needed for the other requirements ends up being more than adequate for the strength requirements so going with a higher strength to weight ration carbon or Kevlar isn’t worth the expense and increased difficulty of use. In general if you are hand laying up multiple layers of composite and not vacuum bagging it then you are using so much more resin weight than what is needed that it is kind of silly to think of saving a couple pounds with fabric.   -
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 1:16pm
Yes Gary. Thank you!

I ran into this too in another thread. Seems like the way to go if dry airborne particulate is clogging the vacuum filter. Also, I was thinking of making a shrink wrapped bubble similar to the way one winterizes a boat or RV. maybe just a bit bigger using the rub rail as the bottom seal.

...and this thought led me to thinking about using water like they do when grinding and polishing stone or concrete. lots of different types of water ready tools in this trade for wet cutting, grinding and sanding. i.e.. the diamond blade everyone is blaming "cuts like butta". Another example is a wet tile saw. some are nothing more than a 4" grinder clamped to a table and a pan. is occam listing?    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by Gneil Gneil wrote:

Ok, here is another idea....(slightly off topic)

Dust collection during the stringer demo and prep. Has anyone heard of grinding and sanding with water?

I know this may sound obvious (gel coat wet sanding on the exterior) or even ironic, but the boat is a sort of bowl and the waste could be concentrated in a container for disposal with a simple filtering sys. also it might help with the itchy factor and clean-up could be managed on an ongoing basis.

Any thoughts?


Cutting or grinding glass use pneumatics with a water spray, like at the dentist.
Aim and zip tie a small nozzle at the cutting wheel or whatever, just make a slurry, virtually no dust.

of course still don all ppe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 1:40pm
Hey Joe,

Indeed I must defer to that fantastic endorsement of your coosa stringer and floor build. I'm learning with every message of yours I read. I think you may be approaching demi-god status when it comes to modifying SNs.

One question I haven't found an answer to is, has any one documented their stringers and floor with drawings. Either 1:1 patterns or scale drawings by hand or on CAD?

If so, I was thinking of pre-manufacturing the stringers here in my basement in Philly and installing them this spring at the lake in NY. If I can do this, then vacuum bagging and or proper clamping may provide other options with different materials.

In any case, making the parts off-site in a heated and convenient location (it's also closer to the coffee pot and my bed..) would be the best if i can locate documents to pattern with even if i were to use traditional materials for my 1980 SN as originally spec'd.



    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 1:51pm
following the water grind tread...

Tom,
The zip tie solution may work just great!
I Think Bosch makes grinder attachments that have several attachments similar to what you are talking about that are used for stone and concrete.

I've cut a lot of tile and related materials both wet and dry and you never really want to cut dry if you have the option.

could be a wet mess, but it might be better than a dry one.... Still planning.
Thank you for your insight! I love this tread thing... It's a first for me.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 1:58pm
Roger England did a composite build with a lot of great info of a boat your generation, he might have had cad files, I thought someone did.   I drew up my stringers/floor so I could lay them out on the sheets efficiently, but I didn’t model the hull shape accurately so I just got the bottoms close and then shaped them by hand. My files are long gone as I haven’t used Pro-E in ten years or so…
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 2:01pm
I'm in the process of doing wood stringers and a Coosa floor. All with epoxy resin.

uk1979 might already have drawings of a factory 70-81 ski nautique structure. However, many of us have chosen to modify the factory design for many reasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uk1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 2:07pm
Oh well my fun is over watching guys work dry ( seen as a wright of passage here )    as you can see Yes a cheap Ebay stone grinder/polisher will do the job as 115mm diamond blades screw straight on… my top tip get one with a rubber skirt you can thank me later.
Will cut a little slower as max rpm 4000 but no dust.
Get a hard and soft pads for diamond 50 grit disc and your good to go.

As for gen 2 SN there are drawings in this thread and Quinner has them in inches ,PM him for a copy they can be printed out full size on a plotter for templates if yours are mush.

Thanks for saving a Gen 2 SN good luck with the build.
Lets have a go
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 2:09pm
Again, Thank you Joe!

Ill see what Rodger has to offer. I did realize that your boat is a 2001 hull and mine is a couple years older than that design. But its the concept and implementation that is so impressive to me.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 2:23pm
Roger That!!!

You know what they say about the Brits???? (just kidding, of course)

Anyway,... it's the carpenter genius in you that I see in this rig. Very cool!!! I think you are hitting above your station!!! This is Exactly what I was thinking about. You are grand Poobah status to me.

Just to confess, I spent several years working in Europe after school and this is where i truly learned to appreciate how stone and concrete should be used...

Always an honor. Cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 80SN Barnfind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

... Either that or just do the glass build up with nice crisp 20's


Pete, any idea what the proper moisture content of US currency should be prior to layup??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 2:30pm
Hi Pete,
If I may be so bold......I was thinking of SDRs or maybe some bitcoins.... Something that will be impervious to Water ???

but I'm just a newbie...
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Blockchain technology = stronger core material
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by 80SN Barnfind 80SN Barnfind wrote:


Pete, any idea what the proper moisture content of US currency should be prior to layup??

Noel,
I'd shoot for around 8%. Keep in mind, new, it comes off the press at around 18%. If you lay them out in a single layer and have some air circulation, it shouldn't take more than a day to to get them down to the 8% range.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 2:55pm
does it matter what kind of lay-up you use depending on what type of water the boat will be floating in?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-14-2017 at 2:58pm
... the swamp water here in philly can be mighty corrosive....
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