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1979 Ski Nautique Propeller not disengaging

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stevedsr View Drop Down
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    Posted: February-28-2018 at 10:08pm
I bought a 1979 Ski Nautique about 3 years ago. I've since rebuilt the engine 351 Commander) and transmission and have been enjoying it. However, this week out of nowhere, while putting it in the lake, I noticed the propeller didn't disengage and I had enough forward motion in idle to jam the bow against the trailer. I killed the engine and pushed out into the lake and started up again. I was able to start the engine with no problem. I was able to go forward but when I put the boat in reverse, I kept going forward until it stalled. I'm hoping it's not the bushing at the propeller shaft. Let me know your thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2018 at 10:15pm
Steve,
What you have is called a "dirty" neutral. It's caused by warped clutch plates. The warping is common when a trans is overheated. Typically a new clutch pack will take care of the problem. You said you rebuilt the trans. What did you do with it?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevedsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2018 at 12:31pm
thank you. I actually had a guy rebuild it for me. I don't know what he did with the parts. The fluid was red and full. I was running it the week before at the put in, maybe it overheated then. Now I have to research the clutch plates and how to fix them...hopefully it won't be another couple of boat bucks (1 boat buck = $1000).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2018 at 12:40pm
You should first disconnect your shift cable from the transmission and ensure it is working correctly when you are in forward will it firmly lock in forward, when you are in neutral is it firmly in neutral, etc... if all that is working correctly then yes you may need to open up that transmission.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2018 at 12:55pm
I think, like Joe said make sure it's not a linkage issue first.

If the boat was running fine the week before with no slippage issues, no engine overheat issues, I doubt that you overheated your clutch plates sitting on the trailer.

What do you mean by "when I put the boat in reverse, I kept going forward until it stalled."?

With the engine running, when you put it in reverse, does the shaft turn backwards?

In any case, your strut bushing that you asked about isn't the problem.

You may end up inside the transmission again, but check the other stuff first.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevedsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2018 at 1:33pm
thanks. when I started the engine the prop shaft was spinning in the forward direction even with the propeller disengaged. When I put it in reverse the throttle cable seemingly pushed the transmission in reverse (pushed the gear shift backwards) but the prop kept spinning in the forward direction. When I was on the open water testing it I could put the throttle in reverse, but the boat kept moving at speed (it would actually speed up the farther back I pushed the throttle). If I moved the throttle too far back the engine stalled.

So, in summary..The boat went forward under power with the prop disengaged and in neutral. It would speed up in forward if I throttled forward and would speed up in forward if I throttled in reverse, up to a point it then it would stall.

I'm hoping it's not an expensive fix, but I think I know better at this point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevedsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2018 at 1:36pm
I moved the throttle forward and reverse and it moved the gear arm forward and backward. Is there something more I should do?

I'm starting to wrap my head around the fact that this is not going to be easy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2018 at 3:00pm
A mechanical (clutch pack related) dirty neutral will persist with the engine off.
See if you can spin the shaft. If requires high effort, clutch plates are warped, or forward piston stuck,

A hydraulic dirty neutral (forward circuit pressurized past spool valve in neutral and reverse) would not persist with the engine off when line pressure is zero.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MourningWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2018 at 3:46pm
as has been suggested, disconnect the shift cable from the transmission shift lever.
Supply water, start boat and watch prop. (be sure and spray lube the strut bearing).
See if manually moving the trans. shift lever affects things. (you won't need to move throttle to do this)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2018 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by stevedsr stevedsr wrote:

thanks. when I started the engine the prop shaft was spinning in the forward direction even with the propeller disengaged. When I put it in reverse the throttle cable seemingly pushed the transmission in reverse (pushed the gear shift backwards) but the prop kept spinning in the forward direction. When I was on the open water testing it I could put the throttle in reverse, but the boat kept moving at speed (it would actually speed up the farther back I pushed the throttle). If I moved the throttle too far back the engine stalled.

So, in summary..The boat went forward under power with the prop disengaged and in neutral. It would speed up in forward if I throttled forward and would speed up in forward if I throttled in reverse, up to a point it then it would stall.

I'm hoping it's not an expensive fix, but I think I know better at this point.


Based on your description here, you're gonna be getting into the internals of the transmission again since no matter what you do it's stuck in Forward.

If you lay under the boat on the trailer with the engine off can you rotate the prop shaft or does it not turn at all?

How long ago was the rebuild?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2018 at 6:39pm
Your 79 should have a Velvet Drive. Correct?
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

How long ago was the rebuild?

Yes, how long ago and:
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Steve,
You said you rebuilt the trans. What did you do with it?

Also, do you remember where you placed the big clutch spring snap ring that's between the clutch pack and clutch forward piston? It's really a spacer and not a snap ring.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2018 at 8:15pm
This was in his answer to your first post Pete

Originally posted by stevedsr stevedsr wrote:

thank you. I actually had a guy rebuild it for me. I don't know what he did with the parts.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2018 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

This was in his answer to your first post Pete

Originally posted by stevedsr stevedsr wrote:

thank you. I actually had a guy rebuild it for me. I don't know what he did with the parts.   

ken,
Thanks. Yup, I missed it!

Steve,
The week you had the boat running before the trans problem, did you ever have any engine cooling problems?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevedsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-05-2018 at 2:59pm
I can't turn the prop with the engine off. Looks like I have to figure out how to repair this too.

What a love/hate relationship this is...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevedsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-05-2018 at 3:16pm
I really don't know, my temp gauge is out, I've been checking my transmission fluid and it was still red in color. I did put on a new intake hose that is is much easier to get to to clean the intake filter. The temperature gauge is being replaced during this repair.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-05-2018 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by stevedsr stevedsr wrote:

I can't turn the prop with the engine off. Looks like I have to figure out how to repair this too.

What a love/hate relationship this is...


Well your transmission is mechanically bound up in forward if you can't turn the prop by hand with the engine off because you're trying to turn the engine too, so you only have one problem. A jammed up transmission.

I guess that's a little bad news and a little good news
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-05-2018 at 5:46pm
He might remove the 4 bolts holding the prop shaft to the transmission and see if the tranny will turn when it is not connected to the shaft.. Just to rule out a bind in the prop shaft alignment.   The tranny will be coming out either way for repair so it is not wasting time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-06-2018 at 11:43am
these are such simple transmissions. I ve never messed with one before until I did mine a couple of years ago.   its pretty strait forward. rebuild kit with all new clutch plates.   If bearings are good then its pretty simple..   Got min right first try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevedsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2018 at 2:55pm
Engine rebuild about 2.5 years ago. Transmission 14 months

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2018 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by stevedsr stevedsr wrote:

Engine rebuild about 2.5 years ago. Transmission 14 months


In the 14 months, did the trans ever run normal?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2018 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by stevedsr stevedsr wrote:

I bought a 1979 Ski Nautique about 3 years ago. I've since rebuilt the engine 351 Commander) and transmission and have been enjoying it. However, this week out of nowhere, while putting it in the lake, I noticed the propeller didn't disengage and I had enough forward motion in idle to jam the bow against the trailer


Here Pete, from post one in the thread, this should answer your question
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevedsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2018 at 4:28pm
I think so...good response while driving. don't know if it was running hot or not...I have a sneaking suspicion that the guy didn't do a great job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2018 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by stevedsr stevedsr wrote:

I think so...good response while driving. don't know if it was running hot or not...I have a sneaking suspicion that the guy didn't do a great job.

Steve,
If it ran for the 14 months and then locked up, we're back to a possible overheat. It may not be a poor rebuild job? The trans has got to be opened up to determine the problem.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevedsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2018 at 7:31pm
Gotcha. I'm going to work on it as soon as I can.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2018 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by stevedsr stevedsr wrote:

   I did put on a new intake hose that is is much easier to get to to clean the intake filter. The temperature gauge is being replaced during this repair.   

Steve,
Did you just lengthen a hose? You didn't reroute a hose?? Just asking trying to get an idea of a possible overheat.

Also, you mentioned you couldn't turn the prop by hand. Yes, it could be a trans problem but also a prop shaft alignment problem. How's the alignment?


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