Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 95' Nautique Project ... expanded
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

95' Nautique Project ... expanded

 Post Reply Post Reply Page    <1 23456 7>
Author
gun-driver View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: July-18-2008
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 3112
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2018 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Someone has to pay for the signage Ken, and advertising don't come cheap😉. My boat was built in April of 95, it has the tubular intake. But who knows how long the engines sit at the factory before they get installed. I like the looks of the tube ones,they look like the bundle of snakes exhaust used on the gt40's namesake,the original GT40


I agree
Back to Top
gun-driver View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: July-18-2008
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 3112
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2018 at 1:25pm
Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2018 at 3:59pm
Yeah, cool. But.... $800 for cool, when I already have one. I'll pass this go round

However this whole conversation has prompted me to try tracking down one of those articles and I found something a bit interesting that I hadn't found before. The comparison itself indicates that the FoMoCo cast plenum actually outperforms the tubular by a small percentage. But the more interesting part of the article stated that it isn't the plenum that creates any restrictions - it is more the lower intake. They claim a guy can pick up 10+ real horsepower by porting only the lower to the plenum, where the majority of the restriction is located in this design.   Think I might be pulling out the Dremel tomorrow.    



JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
gun-driver View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: July-18-2008
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 3112
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2018 at 1:09pm
In the RPM range we use these boats (3000 - 4200) according to your charts the HP is slightly better with the tubes and the TQ is several points better.
Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2018 at 11:34pm
Good point Paul, I hadn't really looked at it that closely. Still, I would have guessed there would be more of a performance difference between the full tube and cast plenums.
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2018 at 5:50pm
So I had a lazy day with not much to do yesterday. Then I remembered that I needed to clean up & refinish my swim platform, IF it was worth salvaging. As with much of this boat over the years, the teak was very neglected.

I started first on the under side, taking the brackets off and trying to sand off all the nasty debris collected over the many years as well as the thick coating of dark stain and poly that one or the other of the PO's had done in the past. When it was evident that this wasn't going to be easy at all, I decided to disassemble the entire thing and do things piece by piece.



This proved to be an almost impossible task also since the stain and poly was very thick in the seams. I suspect the teak was untouched for years before even this was done because the open grain of the planks were eroded quite a bit and sanding would only go so far, leaving almost black streaks on nearly every piece. So, not ready to junk the whole thing and start from scratch just yet, and not really relishing the tiger stripe look, I decided to plane all the pieces a little at a time till the stripes were gone. Unbelievably, I didn't have to take that much off and they turned out great, albeit about 1/8" thinner. I had to get all new screws for reassembly because I didn't want to chance them coming through the top when I put it all back together. Finally I addressed the corroded, discolored brackets, wire brushing them to raw, priming and painting them silver.



A good coat of teak oil on all the parts before assembly, and then a couple of final coats afterward and I think it turned out rather well. It still shows some signs of prior neglect but under the circumstances I'm just happy it turned out as good as it has.



Only drawback is the obvious in the pic above. Turns out I had one very dark piece, a couple medium dark and one very, very light. Guess I should have done the lightening process after all, I just didn't think it would be necessary since I planed all the junk off. Well, this is SO much better than it was and will last a while till I'm ready to either replace it with one of the new Jatoba ones from the site, or rebuild this one with Ipe (Teak is just too expensive).
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2018 at 11:42pm
Not much of an update.... Only to say the machine shop ran into a delay and my engine would be a couple weeks late. New date is as early as the end of next week, but more probably sometime the week after.    Well naturally. You know, since we've been between large projects these last couple of weeks and had some extra time to devote to spring cleaning, household maintenance and the like. OR, say installing an engine.
We start the next big project on Tuesday so .....     

Well, there's always the weekends
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
Wisky Badger View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: July-02-2015
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 200
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wisky Badger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2018 at 8:47am
Teak looks great
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2018 at 7:12am
It's been about a month Joe, time for an update
Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2018 at 9:37pm
Well I did get the engine, but it's in the garage - and still in the crate. As I was fearing, it was taking them so long to get to, then finish it that I've become swamped at work and just haven't had a chance to do anything with it.   Oh I opened the crate to get a peek, then right back to work. I thought I'd have at least half a day or so on Saturday and again on Sunday but as you'd know it an "emergency" with one of our projects kept me busy out of town all weekend      

Spring and summer are usually very busy for me, not only with work but family stuff as well. In May, June and July we have 12 birthdays, 4 anniversaries and this year, 3 weddings and 2 funerals. What's that line from Saturday Night Live?? "If it's not one thing, it's another!"       

This weekend???    I'm just going to turn my phone OFF !!   
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2018 at 6:47pm
Ok, since Ken sparked my drive by asking how things were going I decided to set aside the 3 bids I need to get done this week (at least for a day or two) and get the engine out of the crate and on the stand. Since I know folks are going to ask, here are a few pics of what I have to start with:









Now before any of you eagle eyes comment on my oil pan - Yes, I know it's an automotive and won't work with the boat. I have the original that I had powder coated and am going to swap it tonight. The builder had to install something because he puts his engines on a sim for 30 minutes or so to make sure everything is savvy - he just left it on there for transport & make sure no dirt or debris got in there to contaminate the works.   
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2018 at 6:58pm
I'm more curious about the harmonic balancer with 2( edit make that 3) sets of markings.

I guess when you put it at TDC on #1 you'll know which ones to use

It's time for an oil pan comparison picture too by the way while they're both off.
Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2018 at 8:09pm
It's a Pioneer, guess it goes both ways?   Shop owner told me after the took it off of the sim they set it at TDC on #1 for me ... make it easier to finish the install. Of course, I got out the scope first thing and confirmed. What was it that Duane had said a few days ago? Trust no one!     
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2018 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by gt40KS gt40KS wrote:

It's a Pioneer, guess it goes both ways?   Shop owner told me after the took it off of the sim they set it at TDC on #1 for me ... make it easier to finish the install. Of course, I got out the scope first thing and confirmed. What was it that Duane had said a few days ago? Trust no one!     


Nah.............it only goes one way, otherwise the markings would go in opposite directions

Some Small Block Ford water pumps for those land based vehicles have the inlet on the left and others on the right and they had different locations for the timing pointer because of that so the markings had to be in different places. I guess you have a more or less "universal" one In the third picture it looks like your pointer is aligned with the 0 on the outermost markings

Is that Pioneer the same thickness as your original so you won't have any alignment issues?

I know nothing about a sim, so what do they do to it for 30 minutes on this thing?.
Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2018 at 8:43pm
Various shops call it different things, but basically it's an automated machine that rotates the assembly while running oil through. From what I understand, this helps flush out any residual impurities while making sure it all rotates smoothly, etc. The shop that built my Son's diesel last fall does it for all of their engines as well - some shops do, some don't. But I feel it's an extra measure of assurance.

As for the comparison, here you go





JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2018 at 9:07pm
Thanks Joe

The pan shots look like the temporary one is a Spectra or Dorman like what I had comparison shots of in the linked thread below.

Only your pan is prettier

Do you have a windage tray in that red pan of yours?

Flip it over and take a picture

link
Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2018 at 10:29pm
Yeah, he told me they usually include new chrome valve covers and oil pan with their cookie cutter long block crate engines so he nearly always has a ton of the stock ones on hand for times like these. Don't really know where it came from, but glad it was there - it was super dry and windy the day we picked it up.

Anyway my existing pan does have the windage tray - guess there's at least a few parts they re-used from the original engine



JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
gun-driver View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: July-18-2008
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 3112
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 9:28am
I dont want to get you riled up but your powder coater slightly missed on the shade of blue
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Online
Points: 36182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

I dont want to get you riled up but your powder coater slightly missed on the shade of blue

Paul,
It's just the color rendering on your computer!


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
Gary S View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: November-30-2006
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 11720
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 5:29pm
I'm guessing Joe's powdercoater had absolutly nothing to do with any of this,the engine came from the builder with this paint and this hardware already on it.
69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport
Back to Top
MrMcD View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: January-28-2014
Location: Folsom, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1525
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 5:57pm
The SIM Test machines were very popular in many high volume machine shops. Rather than start the engine to verify all is well they would spin it in the SIM machine.
Since they have long history with many engines the SIM test gives you a lot of information prior to it going in your vehicle.
AMP load to spin the engine is important. If the AMPs go up they start looking for any issues causing drag in the engine.   They also check compression and oil pressure in the engine.
If I remember correctly the SIM machine spins the engine at 400 RPM.
Most times the engines were spun for about 3 minutes.
At the end of this test the lifters were all pumped up and they would know that Oil Pressure is good and compression is good. The AMP test tells them if the bearings are all properly sized and seated.   If the AMPS are high they pull the engine apart and look for the cause.
This test will catch most manufacturing errors or stack up issues a builder might run into.

After all this if the engine runs a Non Roller camshaft you still have to break in the camshaft on start up. 20 minutes at 1,500 to 2,300 RPM as soon as possible after initial start up. This is necessary to avoid camshaft failure on start up in the new engine.
The lifters and camshaft have to mate to survive.
!
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

.

After all this if the engine runs a Non Roller camshaft you still have to break in the camshaft on start up. 20 minutes at 1,500 to 2,300 RPM as soon as possible after initial start up. This is necessary to avoid camshaft failure on start up in the new engine.
The lifters and camshaft have to mate to survive.


A curious person would have to wonder why this process and the break in rules for a flat tappet cam seem to contradict each other.

Why is X number of minutes at low rpm then stopping it not a bad thing for the cam?

I'm a curious person
Back to Top
Gary S View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: November-30-2006
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 11720
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 6:59pm
Another curious person might also ask - in the days of production flat tappet engines how did the factory run them in. Fire it up at the end of the production line and let the summer help or the VP’s kids blast them around the lot ? 😮
69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport
Back to Top
MrMcD View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: January-28-2014
Location: Folsom, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1525
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2018 at 3:02am
There is a list of reasons why break in of cams running non roller cams is more important today..
The parts involved are not the same quality as in 1970 in some cases. Lifers were built better back then. Most parts are better or far better today but not old school lifters.
On a new engine initial start the lifters may not spin in their bore..
If they don't spin when the cam lobe strikes them they will first scratch the lifter face and then that lifter will soon cup out. The cam lobe digs the center out of the lifter and the cam lobe wears off.
This issue started showing up in mass in the mid 1980's and has been the norm we have to deal with since then.
By spinning the new engine at least 1,500 to 2,300 for the first 20 minutes run time the lifters are hit with more speed which has proven to make the lifters spin.
If you get them spinning and keep them spinning the cam and lifters break in and will work a full life with no additional attention.
Oils have changed, the lifters in the 80's had a hard plate foot on them about 1/8 inch thick. That has been gone for years now.
The parts changed and the break in procedure changed with it.
The engines will be fine if proper break in is followed.
I bet 8 out of 10 would be OK even if the owner did not start it perfectly.
I would hate to be the two out of 10 that had cam failure on start up.
That ruins your day.
Best situation is to have your tune very close to correct before ever attempt in the first start so when it starts you can rev it right away to more than 1,500 and keep it there for the first 20 minutes.
Talk to any professional machine shop and they will lecture you on start up procedure .
Some do it in house to avoid warranty issues.
Cams are not the cause of this issue, cams are hardened in ovens and the cam lobe ends up hardened about 3/8 of an inch deep end to end. It is impossible to have one soft lobe in the middle of a camshaft.
I hope sharing this saves people from wrecking brand new properly rebuilt engines.
!
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2018 at 6:07am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

.

After all this if the engine runs a Non Roller camshaft you still have to break in the camshaft on start up. 20 minutes at 1,500 to 2,300 RPM as soon as possible after initial start up. This is necessary to avoid camshaft failure on start up in the new engine.
The lifters and camshaft have to mate to survive.


A curious person would have to wonder why this process and the break in rules for a flat tappet cam seem to contradict each other.

Why is X number of minutes at low rpm then stopping it not a bad thing for the cam?

I'm a curious person


I guess you weren't trying to answer my question with your last post

Here it is again..................Why is X number of minutes at low rpm then stopping it not a bad thing for the cam?

You talk about 3 minutes at 400 rpm, that isn't 1500-2300 as soon as possible for 20 minutes. All those numbers are from your post

Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2018 at 1:11am
Wow, a lot has been going on here in the last few days since I've been away

Several comments and questions come to mind reading all of that but first, an update on what I've been doing ....













Tomorrow I have a couple of meetings in the morning but after that the weekend will be devoted to getting the ECM installed and connecting as much of the wiring as I can. Then fuel, bilge and plumbing lines. I'd like to also get all the front bolt-on parts installed, or at least a good start on them.
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
gt40KS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: August-05-2017
Location: Wichita Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 644
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2018 at 1:27am
Ok, questions and comments ....   Gary is correct, the blue came from the machine shop (paint, not powder) but I did pick the color. I just like the bright blue and it goes better with the bright red than the old school Ford 'baby blue'   

Nice explanation about the Sim machine Mark ... as others may have figured out now, the Sims aren't used for engine break-in, only to gauge if there is a potential problem. With a long or short block there isn't a cost effective way to assemble or dummy up the entire engine and then turn the start key to see if there is a problem. Consequently a lot of shops would build the basic block for you and say 'let me know if there's a problem when you fire it up....'   Well, that's a lot of work to assemble everything, then try to start it only to discover an issue.   I'm sure it doesn't catch everything, but I'd be willing to bet the instances where a problem is found upon initial start is considerably reduced.


JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40
Back to Top
MrMcD View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: January-28-2014
Location: Folsom, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1525
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2018 at 4:27am
As to how the Machine shops are able to use a Sim machine at 400 RPM and not cause damage that answer is straight forward. They use a very high quality assembly lube which buys you some forgiveness on start up. Once that wears off and the oil in the engine supply takes over you had better be turning higher RPM pretty quick..
There are a few companies that make this assembly lube.   Sealed Power sells it Part # LL5.   This stuff is several times better than Moly lube but also mixes well with oil once oil gets to the part. Today, Comp Cams and others all have their special assembly lube.
The LL5 is great on camshafts, Lifters, Engine Bearings, Cylinders,Pistons and Rings.

A SIM machine just spins it enough so they can verify Oil Pressure and the load it takes to turn it measured in Amps.   History tells them how many amps it takes to spin a 351W or any other engine and they compare it to history.
I know a lot of the large Production Machine Shops used to use a SIM machine.
Production shops did more than 50 engines per month.   My largest did 1,500 Per month.
A lot of these larger companies are now out of business, only a few survived after 2001.
As these guys folded up a lot of that machine equipment ended up in smaller shops.
Knowing what I do about camshaft break in I would still use a SIM test prior to installing an engine if it was available. It catches that 1 in 100 chance of something being off.
!
Back to Top
MrMcD View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: January-28-2014
Location: Folsom, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1525
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2018 at 4:30am
Now add some white paint so it is more patriotic! The 4th of July is coming up soon.
!
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-16-2018 at 6:42am
So Joe..............right about now with the engine in place and not much clutter to get in your way, you ought to be able to tell if the other oil pan would clear the hull in your 95 with a 1.23 PCM

That'd be pretty useful information for some people, since the originals are hard to find.

It looks like there's plenty of clearance for either pan
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page    <1 23456 7>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2018 | Bagley Productions, LLC