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92 SPN Gelcoat restore - Decals

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    Posted: April-23-2018 at 11:46am
So I've been reading the gelcoat restore threads from the FAQ section for a while now, been waiting to pull the trigger on all of the supplies. I'm ready to take the plunge (the gray stripe on the boat is all that looks oxidized, black actually appears to be fine so I probably won't wet sand that).

In prep, I've been looking at replacing all of the decals on the aft section of the boat (partially to make it easier to sand/buff/polish). I went over to nautique parts and got everything *except* the AME 4000 decals ordered. I cannot seem to find those anywhere. Also, the threads I've found on this site alluding to the AME 4000, the decals look very different from what I have:


The ones I've seen pictures of on this site have a blue wavy pattern etc... and don't look like this.

Anybody have a source or NOS leads on ones like mine? Otherwise, I'm torn on whether to pull them off before wetsanding or try to go around them and preserve them as-is (they don't look *great* but they are stock I believe).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lakeview Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2018 at 11:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2018 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by Lakeview Lakeview wrote:

Christines Marine

Awesome! Called them and they said they are getting some more in stock this week, ordered!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartyMabe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2018 at 12:01pm
E-mail me
     mtmabe@northstate.net



Paul- I also get the PEF Plaques cut locally...



Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2018 at 1:39pm
Thanks Marty! If they don't come through this week I'll cancel and contact you.

Also, from the FAQ thread, when buffing/polishing, I'm looking for these pads, but they don't appear to exist anymore...would any 1", 1.5" etc... wool pad work ok? Suggestions? And would 2 per be enough to last for the whole boat below the rub rail?

2 - 41-025 Lake Country Compound Pad
2 - 41-725 Lake Country Compound Pad
2 – 41-625 Lake Country Polishing Pad

EDIT: I am looking ideally for 7 inch hook and loop
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 11:29am
ok, so looking for some opinions.

I'm following the suggested approach of wet sanding 800,1000,1200 and then:

5954: 3M Super Duty Rubbing Compound
5973: 3M Perfect-It II Rubbing Compound
5928: 3M Finesse-It II Finishing Material

2x 41-015: LC 7.5" Wool pad, 1" pile height (use with Super Duty)
1x 41-725: LC 7.5" Wool Pad, 1.5" pile height (use with Perfect It)
2x 41-625: LC 7.5" Wool/Acrylic Pad, 1.5" pile height (use with Finesse-It)

Since I cannot seem to find those exact pads, does anyone have preferred brands/places to source from? Or am I overthinking this :)?

Also, opinions on wet sand by hand/with a block or using an orbital? Any adjustments to grit required?

Sorry for all of the questions, first time I am tackling gelcoat! I think I am a bit lucky as it's obvious that the gelcoat was taken care of in the past and only recently let go before I bought (still has a great shine and only a portion of the gray at the stern is oxidized).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scootdogydog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 12:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:28pm
Do you have pictures of the oxidation?

Based on the one pic I see up above, which is pretty small. You may not need to wet sand. Super Duty on a good wool pad will be similar 1000 grit paper.

Also while others here disagree with me. I have been fine with the just using
3M Super Duty Rubbing Compound then 3M Finesse-It II Finishing Material, which is what 3M recommends.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 3:43pm
What level of scratches does finesse it II state that it will remove? Skipping steps may lead to the deeper scratches being left behind. I know of 1 person who did this and you can see it if you look closely. It’s still very shiny but I would not advise skipping a step.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by scootdogydog scootdogydog wrote:

41-015
41-625
41-725


Thank you! Ordered!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2018 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by Blamey Blamey wrote:

Do you have pictures of the oxidation?

Based on the one pic I see up above, which is pretty small. You may not need to wet sand. Super Duty on a good wool pad will be similar 1000 grit paper.

Also while others here disagree with me. I have been fine with the just using
3M Super Duty Rubbing Compound then 3M Finesse-It II Finishing Material, which is what 3M recommends.


Here is what it looked like at the beginning of last season, it obviously has a little more weathering now (hard to tell with the reflections, wish I had a better picture of it all clean). I also plan to replace the horrendous ID stickers when I re-register the boat in MI which is where it is primarily used now:


Now, the back third of the boat you can see oxidation on the gray stripe, particularly the last 3-4 feet or so (I have ordered all new decals). It does have a nice scratch there on the port side, will try to sand that a bit to get it out, if it's too deep I'll leave it and take care of later. Also, poor photos taken with flash at night...so still not 100%:


you can see that these decals have been replaced before, someone cared at some point :


When I go to rehab this I will take much better pictures of before and after. I'm going to be most aggressive in that part of the gray strip and back off on the rest of the boat.

I'm pretty sure I need to wet sand what's in the photos above? But obviously if I can just use the compound that will save me some time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MechGaT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2018 at 11:40am
Were you able to find the Sport Nautique decals for the sides? I have looked on several sites and have only found the ‘89 to ‘91 or ‘93 and later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2018 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by MechGaT MechGaT wrote:

Were you able to find the Sport Nautique decals for the sides? I have looked on several sites and have only found the ‘89 to ‘91 or ‘93 and later.


Sorry, I am not planning on replacing those at this time...they aren't in bad shape and neither is the gel around them...hoping to keep them on there and just do some light work around them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2018 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

What level of scratches does finesse it II state that it will remove? Skipping steps may lead to the deeper scratches being left behind. I know of 1 person who did this and you can see it if you look closely. It’s still very shiny but I would not advise skipping a step.


3M doesn't publish the numbers for glaze but they do recommend a 2 step process. It used to be Super Duty then Marine Glaze, now it's Heavy Duty Compound then Marine Glaze.



I had good results on my Sport with just 2 steps. Any scratches I had were ones the Super Duty didn't take car of.

I'll be restoring my 230 gel soon. I'll do a two and 3 step and compare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2018 at 11:29pm
Sorry Paul, you fail the quiz.

https://m.imgur/gallery/NgZh6Q2

The question is not “2-step” vs “3-step”... you seem to be missing the point.

For optimal results, each round of (sanding/compound/polish) must remove the scratches left by the previous round.

^^^that is the point

If you are willing to sand for years, eventually 1000 grit with remove the scratches left by 60 grit. But it would be much faster to to make a bunch of smaller steps in between rather than 1 large step. If you don’t spend enough time on one step, or make too big of a leap between steps, you leave behind large scratches that won’t come out in subsequent rounds.

It has been my experience that jumping by more than 200-300 grit between steps results in problems (scratches left behind at the end). Sometimes you have to look close to see them, but they’re there. Super duty removes 1000 grit scratches, finesse it II removes 1500. I have always used an intermediate compound in between (one that removes ~1200-1300 grit scratches) with good results. The 3m tutorial elects to sand to a finer level rather than utilize the SD, then it moves directly to the intermediate compound. It’s not actually skipping a step. I can tell you which is quicker though (sanding vs compound).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2018 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by Blamey Blamey wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

What level of scratches does finesse it II state that it will remove? Skipping steps may lead to the deeper scratches being left behind. I know of 1 person who did this and you can see it if you look closely. It’s still very shiny but I would not advise skipping a step.


3M doesn't publish the numbers for glaze but they do recommend a 2 step process. It used to be Super Duty then Marine Glaze, now it's Heavy Duty Compound then Marine Glaze.
...


FWIW, I purchased 05928 (Finesse-It II Machine Polish).... should I have bought 35928 (the marine glaze type) instead? Is there a significant difference in the product?

I purchased 05954, 05973 and 05928
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2018 at 12:47am
Yep...what TRBenj said. I went through ALL of this a year ago. BIG JOB..but if you DO it right, you'll love the outcome.

here is the link to the thread when I was completely redoing my gel coat, decals, everything. I took the advice of these guys, and my old, dull, faded, scratched boat turned out beautiful.

Here's the thread:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39775
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2018 at 11:42pm
Originally posted by pedricd pedricd wrote:


....

FWIW, I purchased 05928 (Finesse-It II Machine Polish).... should I have bought 35928 (the marine glaze type) instead? Is there a significant difference in the product?

I purchased 05954, 05973 and 05928


I'm assuming I'm good here or should I order the marine glaze version?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2018 at 11:55pm
I believe the last 3 digits indicate the material, the first 2 digits indicate the packaging size. Same stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-02-2018 at 12:04am
Originally posted by pedricd pedricd wrote:

Originally posted by Blamey Blamey wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

What level of scratches does finesse it II state that it will remove? Skipping steps may lead to the deeper scratches being left behind. I know of 1 person who did this and you can see it if you look closely. It’s still very shiny but I would not advise skipping a step.


3M doesn't publish the numbers for glaze but they do recommend a 2 step process. It used to be Super Duty then Marine Glaze, now it's Heavy Duty Compound then Marine Glaze.
...


FWIW, I purchased 05928 (Finesse-It II Machine Polish).... should I have bought 35928 (the marine glaze type) instead? Is there a significant difference in the product?

I purchased 05954, 05973 and 05928


Hard to know how Finesse-It II Machine Polish will compare to Finesse-It II Marine Glaze. They are both Polishes and should do the job. Marine Glaze is marketed for Gel while the Machine Polish is marketed for paint but they could be the same product with different branding or could have small differences that make them a little more effective for their intended surface.

If you want to play it safe then return the MP and get the MG
or try the MP and see if you are satisfied with the results
or buy both and let us know if there is any difference.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-02-2018 at 1:52am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Sorry Paul, you fail the quiz.

https://m.imgur/gallery/NgZh6Q2

The question is not “2-step” vs “3-step”... you seem to be missing the point.

For optimal results, each round of (sanding/compound/polish) must remove the scratches left by the previous round.

^^^that is the point

If you are willing to sand for years, eventually 1000 grit with remove the scratches left by 60 grit. But it would be much faster to to make a bunch of smaller steps in between rather than 1 large step. If you don’t spend enough time on one step, or make too big of a leap between steps, you leave behind large scratches that won’t come out in subsequent rounds.

It has been my experience that jumping by more than 200-300 grit between steps results in problems (scratches left behind at the end). Sometimes you have to look close to see them, but they’re there. Super duty removes 1000 grit scratches, finesse it II removes 1500. I have always used an intermediate compound in between (one that removes ~1200-1300 grit scratches) with good results. The 3m tutorial elects to sand to a finer level rather than utilize the SD, then it moves directly to the intermediate compound. It’s not actually skipping a step. I can tell you which is quicker though (sanding vs compound).


3m have switched from Super Duty P1000 (the old recommendation) to Heavy Cut compound (which is rated as P800) in their tutorial. So they have gone more aggressive. I can't find the old gel coat tutorial but if you google 'PN09004', first couple links are pages for Marine Glaze but they still reference that it is used as a follow up to Super Duty)

Not sure why they go from 800 to 1500 wet sand then 800 to 1500 compound and polish.



I totally see the value in adding a compound/polish step between the P1000 Compound and the P1500 glaze. It certainly won't hurt the end result. Though it may hurt your arms.

I have purchased a bottle of the new 3m Heavy Cut Compound and I will use this on my 230. The boat looks to be in decent shape but does have some medium oxidation. I've still got some super duty, so I'll compare this to the Super Duty and see if the new stuff does any better. I'll also try with and without the machine polish step and see how that shows up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2018 at 1:45pm
Well, I promised I would send some before and after... could have had some better pictures but should give an idea. I think it came out great.

Before I did that I changed the fuel sending unit, replaced the speedo lines (completely this time), sealed the underside of the rub rail on the stern corners with 4200 and re-packed the rudder.




You can see the residue from the stripe off wheel, and how "ghosty" the decals were (there was a yellowish hue around some of it too):






After polishing...I do have a couple nicks in the gelcoat I will probably repair at some point, but overall pretty clean:


I think that it looks pretty good (you can see PO burned the corner prior):










Because my gel wasn't in too bad of shape outside of the gray (particularly back corners) I modified slightly:
- Used a 3m stripe off wheel to remove the decals (can't remember who suggested but it was awesome)
- Taped off the pin stripes
- Wet sanded the back 3-4 feet of gel on the gray stripe (800/1000/1200)
- 2x Super Duty on the gray stripe stern to bow
- Pulled the tape
- 1x intermediate compound entire side and underside of boat
- 2x polish entire boat below rub rail
- wax

Some things I learned:
- I know I used waaaay too much compound.... Try to pay attention to how much you are sloshing around.

- Be patient and work slowly. If you haven't done this before, double or triple the time you think it will take (at least that works for me). I ended up starting at the lake, but towing back to my house to finish up

- When applying the (larger) decals, THINK before you start. The starboard side "Correct Craft" decal is a little off, and I had a hell of a time getting it on there because I peeled off the backing before trying to line-up and apply... On the port side, I taped the top of the decal (with backing) to the boat, once I had it aligned properly I then peeled the backing from the top and worked slowly down, applying the decal as I went... I had MUCH better success this way, and the tape kept everything aligned well (like an extra set of hands).

- Use good pads as recommended... The "intermediate" pads were on back order...so I ended up going to Harbor Freight (eek) in desperation and wow they were terrible in comparison to the LC pads.... Still ended up with good results but a lot more work (and the pads just ended up flat as pancakes). If you have to substitute find a quality pad...don't do what I did.

- Watch out around hardware (like around the stern), I caught the drain plug etc... and it of course transferred some tarnish to the pads etc..

- If I think of more I'll add them :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartyMabe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2018 at 2:03pm
Looks GREAT !

Missing the AWSA Decal

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bwinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2018 at 2:08pm
Looks great! Now on to those registration decals.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2018 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by bwinn bwinn wrote:

Looks great! Now on to those registration decals.......


Bwahaha! I know. The boat is switching to MI registration, it will be "fixed" then
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Originally posted by MartyMabe MartyMabe wrote:

Looks GREAT !

Missing the AWSA Decal



Hmmm... if you look up in the thread, they weren't on there when I got the boat... so either a PO removed and didn't replace or ? Where do they go, next to the PCM decal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2018 at 3:20pm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-03-2018 at 12:04am
Originally posted by Blamey Blamey wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Sorry Paul, you fail the quiz.

https://m.imgur/gallery/NgZh6Q2

The question is not “2-step” vs “3-step”... you seem to be missing the point.

For optimal results, each round of (sanding/compound/polish) must remove the scratches left by the previous round.

^^^that is the point

If you are willing to sand for years, eventually 1000 grit with remove the scratches left by 60 grit. But it would be much faster to to make a bunch of smaller steps in between rather than 1 large step. If you don’t spend enough time on one step, or make too big of a leap between steps, you leave behind large scratches that won’t come out in subsequent rounds.

It has been my experience that jumping by more than 200-300 grit between steps results in problems (scratches left behind at the end). Sometimes you have to look close to see them, but they’re there. Super duty removes 1000 grit scratches, finesse it II removes 1500. I have always used an intermediate compound in between (one that removes ~1200-1300 grit scratches) with good results. The 3m tutorial elects to sand to a finer level rather than utilize the SD, then it moves directly to the intermediate compound. It’s not actually skipping a step. I can tell you which is quicker though (sanding vs compound).


3m have switched from Super Duty P1000 (the old recommendation) to Heavy Cut compound (which is rated as P800) in their tutorial. So they have gone more aggressive. I can't find the old gel coat tutorial but if you google 'PN09004', first couple links are pages for Marine Glaze but they still reference that it is used as a follow up to Super Duty)

Not sure why they go from 800 to 1500 wet sand then 800 to 1500 compound and polish.



I totally see the value in adding a compound/polish step between the P1000 Compound and the P1500 glaze. It certainly won't hurt the end result. Though it may hurt your arms.

I have purchased a bottle of the new 3m Heavy Cut Compound and I will use this on my 230. The boat looks to be in decent shape but does have some medium oxidation. I've still got some super duty, so I'll compare this to the Super Duty and see if the new stuff does any better. I'll also try with and without the machine polish step and see how that shows up.


So I have been playing around a bit this weekend and did some testing of the 3m products.

First, Comparing the new 3m heavey cut compound to 3m Super duty. The HCC is interesting as it leaves a much finer finish then the super duty. Almost good enough to not need a Polish.. Unfortunately I did get a chance to complpare how well the HCC cut. I was wetsanding to 1500 and both worked well on the scratches. It's rated as P800 and Super duty is P1000 but is am scepticle that the HCC cuts as well as the SD. I just didn't setup a good spot where I tested both side by side. I'll need to revisit this maybe with only going to 1200 Wetsand.

Secondly, 2 vs 3 steps
As discussed above 3m reconmeds a 2 step process with Super Duty and Finess it 2 Marine Glaze. (Well they did before, now they recommend 2 steps with the Marine Heavy Cut Compound and Marine Glaze). TRBemj was adament that 2 steps was wrong, and you need an extra round of compounding with a the less agressive Perfect it compound. So I tested it out. The result was that by daylight you cannot see a difference. I've tried looking at all different angles and both methods look excellent BUT if I take a tourch out and shine a light on the gel, there is significantly more haloing with the 2 vs 3 step method. So I'll conclude that you are probably fine doing two steps but if you want this perfect (As we know Tim does) there is a clear advantage to adding the 3rd step.

Next time I am going to combine my results above and test wet sand with 1500 then 2 steps of Marine Heavey Cut Compound vs the 3 steps of Trbenj's recommendation. My feeling is that the HCC followed by Finess It will be fine as long as the HCC is agressive enough to work on the 1500 scratches.


For pads I used the 3m white wool for Super Duty and Marine Heavy Cut Compound and the yellow wool for the Finess it and Perfect it rounds.

96 Super Sport
Previously: 95 Sport Nautique, 1980 Ski Supreme
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Groupie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pedricd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-27-2018 at 12:47am
I was very happy with my results using 3 step... heck the intermediate compound started to make it shine. Neighbor at the lake has an early nineties outboard ski boat. Fast as heck, forget the brand... anyway I let him use my leftovers and gave him the same instructions I followed and he was very happy with how his black gel coat turned out. I think to each his own... from my limited time here I think that most people posting care more about their boats than 90% of boat owners out there, and are interested in maintaining them at a high standard...interesting to watch the debates and people trying things out for our benefit. Thank you!

Enough rambling, after a season with my restored gel, what do you all typically do in the fall to maintain? Do you just clean and wax or do you hit it with a polish yearly or ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-27-2018 at 10:20am
Looks great !!! Nice job.. Hey, in the end who cares how you did it as long as you're satisfied and happy with the result. Each hull is a bit different, so the approach isn't always the same.
Again, nice job.....

Moj'
05' SV211 TE
73' Martinique
had:96' SNOB
had:76' Nautique
had 77 Tique

       

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