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1985 2001 with 454 - dead

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MrMcD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 12:23am
With people and with shops you learn good ones from bad ones when things go south.
If this shop stands up and fixes your issues as promised they are a class shop. If not throw them under the bus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 7:26am
Originally posted by Ian Ian wrote:

So now I'm curious, could they have done any damage to my transmission by running it backwards for an unknown amount of time?

I'm not in the business of trying to screw anyone over, but if it's possible that it sustained damage, I would like to have it rebuilt... Since it was just rebuilt last year.


I doubt they ran it long enough to do any damage to anything. It was never able to engage the clutches since the pump couldn't pump anything.

If anything would be affected it would be the pump gears but they're really quite robust and there would have been residual oil coating everything in the pump.

I don't ever remember anybody having a problem after reorienting the pump (or in your case, I guess you'd say reorienting the engine)

It sounds like you should try to get something in writing from Tommy's that if the transmission fails within some agreed upon period of time, the fix is on them for peace of mind

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 7:38am
Its already got a dirty neutral and you want the shop to marry it?
Check please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 7:56am
Ian,
I too highly doubt there's any damage to the trans. The gears don't care which way they turn for ether rotation. Indexing the pump is just positioning the front housing to line up the fluid inlet and outlet. With a wrong indexing, there's still fluid around the gears, it just won't pump to build the pressure.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 8:24am
I checked with this guy

and he says that Ian's gonna have a day of much discussion with the dealer about leaving that engine in the boat, we'll give you a discount, we'll buy you a new prop etc

And some posting here for opinions

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 8:31am
Carnac knows all.. I agree that much discussion is forthcoming, ideas batted about and options presented. Dollars weighed against practicality and measured with emotion. All while the short clock of a Colorado summer is tick tick ticking away. What will transpire?
Tune in later and find out!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 8:34am
LOL Ken and probably right on..

Ian better go in with plenty of info about how the hulls are designed for RH rotation and the adverse affects of converting it to LH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 8:37am
Looking at Tommy's website, I get the impression they are more sport equipment oriented than boat service. The majority of their team members are shown out on the water.

Ian,
As mentioned, it is highly recommended to not accept a LH prop.

When you discussed the rotation problem with them, did the "tech" bring up trans pump indexing or did you have to tell them what it is?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 9:35am
One short summer waiting for the "right" engine or 20 summers dealing with a left and engine?

I'd wait. It takes 20% of my weight full port just to balance a 2001 with a RH prop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smithfamily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 9:55am
Well this turned out to be an challenge! I would also insist on the correct rotation motor. I would calmly explain that this is their business and problem to correct. If they refuse or try to shift responsibility to your "not ordering the correct motor", I would get an attorney involved. I am sure this is not an inexpensive installation. Why should you settle for less? Sure am sorry for your troubles. I thought we would be skiing by now.
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Ian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 10:04am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

I checked with this guy

and he says that Ian's gonna have a day of much discussion with the dealer about leaving that engine in the boat, we'll give you a discount, we'll buy you a new prop etc

And some posting here for opinions



Shop just called. They said that the talked to the engine supplier, and there was some miscommunication and that reverse rotation engines are becoming phased out and less popular, so they are more expensive and harder to get...

So they said they will pull the transmission and re-index and get a different prop on there.

I said ok, that's fine with me - but I am not going to pay for the prop or parts, or labor for this.
Then the service rep said he isn't sure they can do that.......

I guess I'm gonna have to head over there and have a chat with the manager before I go get my blood pressure up and raise hell.
'85 2001 454
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 10:08am
Well now after reading all this I'm gonna tell them no.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 10:10am
Tommy's is covering all costs of their error.
'85 2001 454
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 11:19am
Hi Ian

Carnac also says that whichever direction you decide to go with this you should make sure the dealer has the water pump hoses on correctly. for the engine rotation.


Here's a picture with the 454 pump on the right showing the reverse rotation hose hookup, and if you go with normal rotation the 2 hoses would have to be swapped on the pump

[/URL][/QUOTE]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 11:29am
And for a little reading, here's an old thread about a 2001 hull with a LH 454.

Nobody was terribly concerned about balance and handling, seems it was a boat that was built by a CC distributor(New England CC) with the LH engine

I'd go with whatever works out the best for you when you talk to Tommy's

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 11:31am
Make them buy you a Prop and a 1.23:1 transmission conversion? Or even if they will participate some that would solve your transmission issue and prop rotation issue for close to the same money would would be paying for a new or rebuilt transmission anyways?

Someone around here would buy your big block trans as a core I am sure,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 11:48am
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Dollars weighed against practicality and measured with emotion. All while the short clock of a Colorado summer is tick tick ticking away. What will transpire?
Tune in later and find out!


I used to be an emotional decision maker when I was younger. Found that to be a bad idea. Not anymore.

Colorado summer's clock is not really a factor either for now. I don't ski colorado lakes on weekends (gotta avoid that circus) and my current schedule has me working a normal 9-5 for a couple more months, I'm normally a shift worker with lots of weekdays off.
'85 2001 454
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 12:53pm
If it was a super original boat having a LH engine instead of the RH engine cuts the value in half IMHO. Having a LH engine with a LH prop in even a modified boat means someone was willing to cut corners to save money. Either way not what you wanted which was a nice boat with a rebuilt engine installed at a marina which would have been a positive over an original engine. The 1:23:1 transmission option wouldn't be terrible, but its a new trans, new shaft and a new prop which is a quick 2500 (maybe 17 to a dealership) so reasonably unlikely they will go for it - I would probably offer it to them though.    If you are not selling anytime soon value is not really important but having had both a LH and RH 2001 I can tell you I much prefer it RH as I no longer feel the need to drive from the passengers seat on a regular occasion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 12:57pm
Yea Ken I too thought of someone plumbing the LH engine as RH and instantly overheating it. I think I even posted something then deleted it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 2:38pm
Has the pump already been run in the wrong direction? Is the circulator pump bi-directional.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 2:55pm
Can you get a top mount starter for a lefty?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by oldcuda oldcuda wrote:

Can you get a top mount starter for a lefty?


The answer lies in the link, complete with a price   

link   


And the circ pump has only one part number RA057019 for LH or RH

PCM rear mount LH starter was RA122009

rear mount RH was RA122008
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 6:12pm
You should accept NO less than what you dropped off except in good running condition for the price agreed to------PERIOD.!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by Ian Ian wrote:

So they said they will pull the transmission and re-index and get a different prop on there..

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

.
Ian,
When you discussed the rotation problem with them, did the "tech" bring up trans pump indexing or did you have to tell them what it is?

Again, do not accept the LH prop "solution". I'm with the others


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 7:55pm
A good negotiating point would be that you had to tell them what they did wrong.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

When you discussed the rotation problem with them, did the "tech" bring up trans pump indexing or did you have to tell them what it is?


I said something to the service rep about the wrong engine causing the transmission "problem" and the rep argued with me saying that's not how that works, and the tech (standing behind the rep) leaned in and confirmed that I was right, and then mentioned that the transmission could be reindexed to match the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 10:14pm
After much research, including calling Correct Craft directly, and engine manufacturers, as well as people who have run similar boats with both OEM and non OEM opposite rotation engines in the same boats, I have elected to convert to LH.

I have taken all of your advice, expertise, and opinions into consideration - and I am truly grateful for all the assistance, you all saved me from the shop's huge error.

Once I have the boat back I'll post the official outcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

A good negotiating point would be that you had to tell them what they did wrong.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 10:43pm
Your not saved by their error yet if you go against what was originally in that boat. Doubtful that anyone a consumer could contact at Correct Craft would even have any knowlege of a boat using a right hand engine. A BFN is alot different boat than a flat bottom Nautique. Art Cozier would be the guy to ask. You might also contact Jody at Florida Inboards,run it past him and see what he thinks. In the end it's your boat not mine,you need to do whats right for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2018 at 11:05pm
Sounds like Tommys sweetened the pot. Good luck.
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