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89 nautique 351 and pcm 40

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Wenzingerm View Drop Down
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    Posted: May-04-2018 at 11:24am
I have an 89 Ford 351 and a pcm 40. I just bout this ski nautique and I took it out to the river yesterday to test it out. Ran well for about 40 minutes and then I noticed the seal on the input shaft started to push out alittle bit. Fluid was the correct amount. Also the after spins while in neutral? Is that common. And then all of a sudden I lost forward gears. And yes I unhooked the shifter cable and tried to manually shift it on the transmission. Oil cooler seemed to work well. Reverse still works. Any input? Thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 11:46am
Matt,
From your description, it sounds like you're going to have to open up the trans to find out exactly what happened. The input seal pushing out is typical of a worn pump. How many hours are on the trans? You mention the fluid level was correct but was the color good and did it small burnt at all?

Welcome to CCfan.
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I got paperwork from the previous owner showing a trans rebuild in May of 2016 so I would not think to many hours are on the rebuilt trans. Boat and motor are right at 600. Rebuilt at Fantastic Finishes in Medina Ohio. Have heard pretty good things about them. Trans fluid seemed a good color and didn’t smell burnt at all. How do you tell if the pump is good or not? Seemed to circulate oil through the trans cooler well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by Wenzingerm Wenzingerm wrote:

I just bout this ski nautique and I took it out to the river yesterday to test it out. Ran well for about 40 minutes and then I noticed the seal on the input shaft started to push out alittle bit.


How'd you notice this since you can't see it?

Do you mean that you started seeing fluid leakage from the bottom of the bell housing?

You say you lost forward only and reverse works, so your pump is functioning if that's the case

Is the shaft slowly spinning in neutral, like slow enough you could stop the spinning with a 2X4 against the shaft or is it moving at the same speed as the engine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wenzingerm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 12:37pm
I meant to say the output shaft seal is getting pushed out. And yes I still have reverse and have just lost forward. And yes just a very slow spin can be stopped easily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wenzingerm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Matt,
From your description, it sounds like you're going to have to open up the trans to find out exactly what happened. The input seal pushing out is typical of a worn pump. How many hours are on the trans? You mention the fluid level was correct but was the color good and did it small burnt at all?

Welcome to CCfan.



I got paperwork from the previous owner showing a trans rebuild in May of 2016 so I would not think to many hours are on the rebuilt trans. Boat and motor are right at 600. Rebuilt at Fantastic Finishes in Medina Ohio. Have heard pretty good things about them. Trans fluid seemed a good color and didn’t smell burnt at all. How do you tell if the pump is good or not? Seemed to circulate oil through the trans cooler well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wenzingerm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by Wenzingerm Wenzingerm wrote:

I just bout this ski nautique and I took it out to the river yesterday to test it out. Ran well for about 40 minutes and then I noticed the seal on the input shaft started to push out alittle bit.


How'd you notice this since you can't see it?

Do you mean that you started seeing fluid leakage from the bottom of the bell housing?

You say you lost forward only and reverse works, so your pump is functioning if that's the case

Is the shaft slowly spinning in neutral, like slow enough you could stop the spinning with a 2X4 against the shaft or is it moving at the same speed as the engine.



I meant to say the output shaft seal is getting pushed out. And yes I still have reverse and have just lost forward. And yes just a very slow spin can be stopped easily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 4:08pm
Did you have slipping or any loud groaning noises as forward was going away?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wenzingerm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Did you have slipping or any loud groaning noises as forward was going away?

No noises at all. One time just went to go to forward and the trans never went in gear. Plan on pulling it here in a couple hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 4:37pm
I rebuilt my 71 series myself.   Pretty good understanding how it works.   Simply a high pressure oil pump and the valve directs pressurized fluid to the large reverse piston or the forward one.   If the pump is warn I suspect it would result in lower pressure.   Not clear how it would work in reverse and not in forward.   Also not clear how the rear seal on the transmission would be pushing out as a result of lower oil pressure unless it is not getting lubricated and burning out but suspect it would show signs of this.   

Yes it believe it has to come off but first I would contact the guy who built is and ask him.   Also is there any type of warranty?   suspect it would have been 90 days or up to a year so likely it is out but doesn't hurt to ask.     Reputable guy may not charge if it was defective if you bring it to him out of the boat.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 4:43pm
Probably a good plan as far as pulling it.

Shierh may have rebuilt his Borg Warner but that not spelled PCM. They're a little different animal.

Like he said, I'd get in touch with Fantastic Finishes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wenzingerm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Probably a good plan as far as pulling it.

Shierh may have rebuilt his Borg Warner but that not spelled PCM. They're a little different animal.

Like he said, I'd get in touch with Fantastic Finishes

I’m just about to work on pulling the trans out. I’ll forsure get in touch with the place that rebuilt it. I haven’t heard to many good things about the pcm trans. What other models of transmissions would work on a 89 351? This is a right hand engine correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by shierh shierh wrote:

   not clear how the rear seal on the transmission would be pushing out as a result of lower oil pressure    

I didn't say lower pressure but rather "worn" and also mentioned the front seal
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Matt,
The input seal pushing out is typical of a worn pump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by Wenzingerm Wenzingerm wrote:

I haven’t heard to many good things about the pcm trans. What other models of transmissions would work on a 89 351? This is a right hand engine correct?


Supposed to be a standard left rotation engine,the trans changes the direction to a right hand prop. I don't think they are any worse than any other trans,parts are just more expensive. The 40 has been updated to the 80A.Skidim has them for 2,212 for the whole new kit- link4th one down. they do offer a discount too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wenzingerm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Originally posted by Wenzingerm Wenzingerm wrote:

I haven’t heard to many good things about the pcm trans. What other models of transmissions would work on a 89 351? This is a right hand engine correct?


Supposed to be a standard left rotation engine,the trans changes the direction to a right hand prop. I don't think they are any worse than any other trans,parts are just more expensive. The 40 has been updated to the 80A.Skidim has them for 2,212 for the whole new kit- link4th one down. they do offer a discount too.


I see those trans all seem to be the 1:23:1
And the pcm 40 that is in it now is a 1:1. What is the difference here? Thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-04-2018 at 11:13pm
I will have to let others who know that year boat answer. I thought they all got the 1.23 to 1 by then,but maybe yours is the decontented model The 1.23 has the output shaft at a 9 degree down angle so that the engine sits level in the boat and it uses a left hand rotation engine and turns the propshaft right. If yours is a 1:1, the prop spins the same direction as the engine- usually a righty in Correct Crafts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bb12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2018 at 12:10am
An 89 should have a 1:23 to 1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wenzingerm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2018 at 11:45am
I’m not sure then the trans that is in it says 1:1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2018 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by Wenzingerm Wenzingerm wrote:

I’m not sure then the trans that is in it says 1:1


What's that old saying................a picture is worth a thousand words.

Take a few,

Engine, transmission and the HIN on the transom so you can verify the year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wenzingerm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2018 at 5:29pm
Does anyone know how to do an air test to check the clutches on the pcm 40?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2018 at 5:38pm
Matt,
I've never heard of using air but that doesn't mean the test doesn't exist. I do know that Eric the original owner of Fantastic Finish Marine used to chuck up his rebuilds in his lathe so he could check the pump to make sure it developed the proper pressure. Tell us more about the air test if you can.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2018 at 5:40pm
I forgot to ask, have you been able to confirm the trans ratio? Do you know if the boat has ever been re powered?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2018 at 9:16pm
FWIW you could pull out the valve spool & check the orings. Not much else you can do to fix it yourself.

You already know it doesn't work, the question is why!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wenzingerm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2018 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

I forgot to ask, have you been able to confirm the trans ratio? Do you know if the boat has ever been re powered?

Yes the ratio is 1:1 I guess it isn’t original. And I did pull the trans today and take it all apart. Clutches and everything seem to be in really well shape.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wenzingerm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-05-2018 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

FWIW you could pull out the valve spool & check the orings. Not much else you can do to fix it yourself.

You already know it doesn't work, the question is why!

I went through the trans today and didn’t find anything wrong. Just pretty dirty inside. I’m thinking that some dirt got in the control valve and clogged it up. Nothing else I can think of why it would be working perfectly fine and then all of the sudden not go into forward but still have oil pressure to go into reverse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2018 at 7:17am
Matt,
Now that you confirmed the ratio, I'm curious as to the engine/prop rotation.


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Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Matt,
Now that you confirmed the ratio, I'm curious as to the engine/prop rotation.

The motor runs clockwise rotation.
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[QUOTE=8122pbrainard] Matt,
Now that you confirmed the ratio, I'm curious as to the engine/prop rotation. [/QUOTE
] Thank you for trying to help me figure out my problem. I have a Ford 351 with the pcm 40 trans ratio 1:1. The first problem I had when I first ran the boat was the output seal was pushing out. What would cause this? Tore it apart and put a new seal in it and it did the same thing. After messing with that and running it out of the water. We decided to take it to the river just to make sure everything was working. Ran really well for about 45 minutes and then all of the sudden we were unable to shift into forward. Reverse still worked. I ended up pulling the trans Friday night and spilt it apart Saturday and didn’t find anything wrong with it at all looked to be pretty much brand new. Fantastic finishes in Ohio rebuilt it two years ago and I do not believe it had many hours since that. I am thinking that a piece of the gasket maker got somewhere in the trans and pulled it up not allowing oil to get on the other side of the clutches to put it into forward. That’s the only thing I could think of. A transmission guy is going to look through it tomorrow and double check everything. Any thoughts? Thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2018 at 5:52pm
Any thoughts? Yea forget the trans guy use the money and put it towards a new trans, the one that is supposed to be in it- the 1.23 to 1.
A picture of your prop would be very helpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-06-2018 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by Wenzingerm Wenzingerm wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Matt,
Now that you confirmed the ratio, I'm curious as to the engine/prop rotation.

The motor runs clockwise rotation.

If you're looking at the front of the engine, then it's a standard LH rotation. As Gary asked, a picture of the prop would be great. And as Ken mentioned, a picture of the trans would be great too.


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