Sea Nautique Questions |
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1reddog48
Newbie Joined: May-13-2018 Location: Friday Harbor Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Posted: May-13-2018 at 11:41am |
Hello to all and glad to find this site!
Brief intro. My wife and I just relocated to the PNW and are looking at boats. I have been a lifelong mechanic and used to wrench on Mastercrafts and Supras and had and then sold a Martinique a few years back. I'm pretty familiar with inboard drive systems and like them immensely. I came across a CC Sea Nautique locally for sale and went to look. Nice boat overall, sitting on a newer trailer. Several desirable add-ons, runs well and has low hours on a rebuild. Solid stringers, a little rot on the engine compartment bulkheads, but does not look structural. I really like the boat but am concerned about resale in a few years. Are these such an odd duck, and getting to an age that finding the next owner will be a big challenge? Asking here because if anyone knows the desireability of this boat, it's this group. Any and all info is greatly appreciated and thanks for adding me to the group! |
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"Never saw a trailer hitch on a hearse"
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Welcome Doug. If you think logically if these boats were desirable they would still be being built. Mako 23's, Fish's and Shamrocks have all given way to -insert name here- outboard powered boats for some reason that I don't understand. Pilot house boats,no matter the brand are popular especially in your neck of the woods. If it's something that would work for you,worry about getting rid of it later. What are they asking for it, fresh or raw water cooled,how many hours and original engine? I have a Shamrock 20 in Florida,I get more comments on it than any other boat I own. It doesn't break any speed records but it does feel safe in big water and easy to work on. Good luck in what ever you choose.
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1reddog48
Newbie Joined: May-13-2018 Location: Friday Harbor Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Thanks Gary!
I agree on all points. I do not understand the lack of popularity of these inboard boats, other than possibly fuel economy. The rig does seem SUPER solid and sea worthy. The get a bit of a bad rap for being wet, but we are fair weather boaters and there is shelter to be had in the doghouse. The boat is on a 2011 galvanized trailer in great shape. I read a survey from '09 and it stated 100 hours on a rebuild From all appearances, it has not logged many hours since then. Seller wants $18K. Has room for negotiation, but I doubt he would appreciate an offer at half his asking price..... Hard or impossible to find CC comps for pricing, and anything else in this sort of configuration brings more dough. Tough call, but cool boat and it would work well for us... |
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"Never saw a trailer hitch on a hearse"
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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That is one of the better looking Sea’s I’ve seen. Gary pretty much said all that I would say. Way back in the day inboards were more efficient than an outboard but now I’m afraid it isn’t that way. Inboards IMO are way more reliable as I’m sure you know and easier to work on. 18k seems pretty high and I don’t think there’s much market for it but maybe there is in PNW. Any Shamrocks in your area? Shamrocks sure seem to be a better boat.
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1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
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1reddog48
Newbie Joined: May-13-2018 Location: Friday Harbor Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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I have been looking at and for Shamrocks, not a ton of those out there either, and no enclosed helm (even a small doghouse) is difficult to find. Add in that they are prone to bringing as much or more than this CC, Shamrocks seem to not looking too feasible.
I think the CCSN is a good choice, for me in particular, but needs to be priced closer to $10K. Any thoughts? |
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"Never saw a trailer hitch on a hearse"
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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If you were to look at a Shamrock you would need to find a 26 with a pilot house and those are hard to find,the few that are out there seem to be used hard in commercial use. FYI a 20 with a house you cannot stand up in unless you are short.
As to the Fish do you know if it is raw water cooled or fresh water? Got any pictures of the engine? Any idea how old the exhaust manifolds are and if the engine was flushed after use assuming it was used in the salt? Not too much activity here with Fish's but there are a few,some names on this thread turn up once and awhile |
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1reddog48
Newbie Joined: May-13-2018 Location: Friday Harbor Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Gary, I forgot to address those questions you asked earlier.
Stand alone engine coolant with salt water heat exchange. Unknown on flush schedule, and I did consider that. I externally inspected the thru hull exhaust, tapped on it an such, seemed solid and recently painted (like it had been addressed when the engine was rebuilt, not to hide issues). Engine compartment is tidy, some residual oil and such in the bottom of the bilge, but overall fairly clean and rust free. I assume the boat has seem mostly salt water use, and it appears as though it was not kept in the water all the time. Current owner has had it for 4 years, no issues. PO was a pilot who kept it up here and sold it due to lack of time to use it. Registration shows it as a charter 6 pack, so it may have seen some commercial use at one time. Pretty amazingly original and not hacked up, added on to, repaired and such. Super easy fresh water flush setup, my guess is it was pretty well cared for. Has full, canvas storage cover, looks like a circus tent! |
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"Never saw a trailer hitch on a hearse"
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ultrarunner
Platinum Member Joined: October-02-2005 Location: Ridgefield, Ct. Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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In-as-much as this boat was someone's income at some point, and judging by the looks and descriptions, it's apparent it has been well cared for. The dog house is a super bonus, and obviously needed in your location. Sounds like you've surveyed it pretty darn good. Maybe check compressions, stringers at the engine mounting bolts, a good sea trial, then hit 'em with a number. Anything close to 12-14k or so and you won't get hurt even several years down the road....IMHO....
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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+1. Even though it's a bigger boat, just for comparison check out this Shamrock- scroll down and look at it's description and then look at the price
Shamrock ebay link |
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1reddog48
Newbie Joined: May-13-2018 Location: Friday Harbor Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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So still mulling this over, an d thanks thus far to all who chimed in.
Price negotiations continue. The seller sent me a NADA value sheet on the boat. First, I believe he thinks "Suggested Retail" is what the boat is currently valued at (not what it's "when new" MSRP is...) so that is a little bit of am issue. The "book" price is coming in well under the price that is being negotiated (about 30% under). I always say that book values are just a guide, and that darn book never bought nothing, so it's just a starting point. Add to that the fact that you cannot find another SN compare it with and pricing is a problem. I guess it's worth what the next guy will pay, but when it comes time to insure it, think this will be an issue? I know it will be when the time comes to sell, but I just have to deal with that when the time comes.... |
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"Never saw a trailer hitch on a hearse"
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1reddog48
Newbie Joined: May-13-2018 Location: Friday Harbor Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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"Never saw a trailer hitch on a hearse"
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ultrarunner
Platinum Member Joined: October-02-2005 Location: Ridgefield, Ct. Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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IMHO, these guides are absolutely meaningless when considering a boat that is nearly 40 years old. As you correctly state, this boat is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. The boat will be disposable by the time you're finished with it. If it's a boat I wanted, and with only going with what you've posted, it might be worth 12 grand to me, maybe less after I surveyed it, as I might be able to get most of that back. And that is being optimistic... Ultra |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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I think you are answering this question as we speak. How many boats like it are in your local marinas? Probably not many. It will likely be for sale indefinitely at $18k |
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1reddog48
Newbie Joined: May-13-2018 Location: Friday Harbor Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Hollywood and Ultra, my thoughts exactly. The book is meaningless, until time to sell comes up. As much as I like the boat, I equally dislike paying too much.
I'm probably going to pass. If any member wants the sellers info, PM me for details. Kind of a bummer. cool boat. Although fuel consumption was a concern, Ethanol-free fuel here is over 4 bucks a gallon! |
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"Never saw a trailer hitch on a hearse"
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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I have no issues burning ethanol fuel in any boat.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Nether do I. I've run ethanol since it came out and have had zero problems. I feel many use "it must be the gas" as an excuse for not finding the real problem! |
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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Not gonna lie, in my truck I get better mpg with e free but not good enough to warrant the extra cost. In my boats I haven’t bothered with e free for years. Funny thing is my ski buds burn e free in the boat we use. They swear ethanol messes it up. For years my share of the gas has been ethanol but I hadn’t told them. No problems yet.
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Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation
1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Todd, Maybe you can recommend a good mechanic to them? |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Don't forget Pete you have not been south of Illinois Rt176 in years Remember my problem of Florida gas eating my tank liner back in '14? Not all gas is created equal. Even though all my boats are old enough for to legally drink I won't run that stuff from there in my boat now
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1reddog48
Newbie Joined: May-13-2018 Location: Friday Harbor Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Before we moved to SJI, I owned/ran a gas station-shop for 16 years....
I only like corn in a glass with a little ice... But that's just me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! |
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"Never saw a trailer hitch on a hearse"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Doug, What problems have you encountered? |
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1reddog48
Newbie Joined: May-13-2018 Location: Friday Harbor Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Most of the issues I have seen (and see here on SJI, I'm working some at the local rental yard) are mostly related to the short shelf life of ethanol blended fuels, and or the incompatibility of ethanol to components that are insoluble in gasoline, or accumulation of water and ultimately phase separation.
Just as gas won't thin lacquer, but MEK will, ethanol can flat a$$ eat some plastics that gas won't hurt. We had a weed eater in the shop last week that the primer bulb had turned to goo from ethanol. Ethanol is refined as a sub-grade fuel (lower octane than it is ultimately sold as) and then with the addition of ethanol, the octane level is raised. We all know how fast alcohol will vapor off (or leave a glass with ice!). Once the ethanol is gone, you are left with the sub-grade that most engines just don't care for. While the ethanol in the fuel is helpful for keeping water in suspension so it can be burned, the water is terrible about oxidizing in aluminum carb bodies and leaving a chalky residue, and ultimately clogging fuel passages. Once enough water accumulates, phase separation occurs and the water drops out of suspension and falls to the bottom of the tank., no mystery what happens then... And adding more alcohol, like Heat and most other additives to get rid of the water actually aggravates the problem. Diluting the whole tank with more gas, or draining it is the only solution. Ethanol blended fuels are more prone to creating vapor lock issues for those in hotter climates still running carbs as well. It was a real pain at higher elevations in air cooled engines and such. Just my observations and by no means gospel. Personally, I think it's the devil. If you buy E-10, then 10% (or so) of what you are paying for basically basically will burn and go thru the tailpipe, but creates less BTU's than gas, hence less fuel economy. Sure, it might have less hydrocarbons than an equal amount of gas when burned, but you have to burn more of it to get the same result. If you have been running it with no issues, then no problem, but that is not true for everyone. We carried ethanol free premium, and I could all but guarantee that if a customer ran it, their fuel economy would increase by 10% minimum. Yeah it cost more, but IMO, it was worth it. All just FWIW... |
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"Never saw a trailer hitch on a hearse"
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outerbanked
Senior Member Joined: July-27-2017 Location: seattle Status: Offline Points: 104 |
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You will love being able to raise the engine to free the crab trap bouy. It is also very helpful to beach when the docks are full at the state parks during the summer. Beach, drop off crew, anchor, paddleboard in, go for hike.
I really like the lines of the sea nautique, but the engine access looks not fun, and the cabin looks like a head knocker during those transits on the windy side of the island. I think you could find a Grady White 19.5 somewhere on the east coast, drive it out, and sell it for more than you bought it. If you are truly expecting to sell in a year or two, buy something the amazons can find easily on the internet. |
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1reddog48
Newbie Joined: May-13-2018 Location: Friday Harbor Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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"You will love being able to raise the engine to free the crab trap bouy. It is also very helpful to beach when the docks are full at the state parks during the summer. Beach, drop off crew, anchor, paddleboard in, go for hike."
I'm confused.... |
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"Never saw a trailer hitch on a hearse"
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outerbanked
Senior Member Joined: July-27-2017 Location: seattle Status: Offline Points: 104 |
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Sorry, I did not mean to confuse.
I meant if you go with an outboard, you will be able to beach it, and lift the outboard when you drift over your line while dropping the crab pots., or run through a kelp field/ tide line. The sea nautique, with the fixed propeller will take more care in manuvering, especially when beaching. |
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ultrarunner
Platinum Member Joined: October-02-2005 Location: Ridgefield, Ct. Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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Funny you mention that. I was going to let that one go....in-as-much as we've been using a GW 223 Seafarer off Chatham for the last 10 years. Wouldn't think of using anything else up there.... |
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outerbanked
Senior Member Joined: July-27-2017 Location: seattle Status: Offline Points: 104 |
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I am serious about the inflated GW prices in NW. I helped a friend drive one across two years ago. Great trip. Perfect boat for the area.
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1reddog48
Newbie Joined: May-13-2018 Location: Friday Harbor Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Just an update. The boat is haunting me. Resale be damned, I'm going for a second look and sea trial on Tuesday. Stay tuned....
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"Never saw a trailer hitch on a hearse"
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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good for you... you could pay twice the price for something with half the character... |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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if you use it alot, then it pays its own way. Then resale is just a byproduct.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
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