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General Tune Up

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cwalk35 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwalk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: General Tune Up
    Posted: June-06-2018 at 4:23pm
Hey all, new to the site, but really enjoying seeing all the helpful advice!

I recently purchased an 87 SN. 351 engine. Ran great while test driving... however, it did not run great on my first day out after I bought it! My kind of luck...

Anyways, hoping for some advice!.

Had a little trouble with initial cranking - but got it going after a minute. (i chalked it up to cold engine at first)

Sputtered a little coming out of the hole, but once it caught up, it ran just fine at full throttle. When i got where i was going and had it at an no wake speed, engine sputtered and died. Had a little trouble cranking again, but got it going.

Repeated this process two more times as i made my way back to the trailer! At one point - starter kept running even after I switched the key off.

Next morning, tried to crank on the trailer to run a tank of gas with sea foam through it. Every time it would try to crank, i would give it some gas and it would sputter and die. Just took it on back home at that point!

Got myself a fake a lake, ready to start a tune up - any suggestions on where to begin?? I know a little about engines - but no expert.

I am thinking the following items may help.

1. check fuel filter
2. check plugs
3. check wires
4. check dist. cap
5. check ignition coil

Any other suggestions?

PS - it has electronic ignition kit installed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldSchoolBlue84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2018 at 4:44pm
Did you ever run the tank dry? Had similar issue while back and ended up being the carb. I removed the mixture screws, used compressed air and then sprayed some carb cleaner. If you don’t have a vacuum gauge, get one or count the number of threads to get it close. (Not an expert on vacuum). Did the trick for the season and then ended up rebuilding the carb the following year. Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwalk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2018 at 5:15pm
Never ran it dry, was too nervous to get stuck out there on the water. I'll give this a try and see where it leads. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2018 at 7:16pm
Cole,
Define what you mean by "cranking". The common interpretation is the starter is turning the engine over but some people use the term for the engine is running. You mentioned the starter kept running after the ignition switch was turned off. This is typical if the start relay (some call it the "solenoid") contacts are welded together. Welding the contacts together can be caused by a bad battery, low battery charge, bad battery cables, bad battery cable terminals and even using a deep cycle battery.

Welcome to CCfan.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwalk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2018 at 8:40pm
By cranking I meant running. The engine was turning over fine, it would just die after a few seconds, or if I applied any throttle.

You mention deep cycle battery, it does have one. I have been curious about that as well because I have seen discussion that deep cycle may not be what is best?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-07-2018 at 8:16pm
Cole,
Proceed with the tune up and see how it runs but I have a feeling the poor running is fuel related. Report back.

BTW, the term "cranking" came from the days when you needed to crank an engine and then hopefully the engine started and then was running.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rebel skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2018 at 3:20pm
I would get a volt meter and see if you have any drop in voltage from the battery post into the wire through the old battery terminal, and then at the other end of the battery cable. I had my starter run a couple of times like that, but have not had that symptom since cutting off an inch of copper wire and installing new batter terminals.

In terms of starting, there is a way of starting the boats perhaps you know or don't. Here is how to do it. Turn on ignition breaker and turn key to run position for a sec or two to let the filters prime it all. Next pull out neutral switch and deliberately pump the throttle all the way back 2 times. This sets the choke. Leave the throttle at about a 40 degree angle, turn key, maybe massage the throttle a little to pump some more gas with the carb accelerator pump, and listen and enjoy the sweet cacophony of 8 cylinders rumbling to life.

After starting, on the water, just give her one little stroke of the throttle when starting.

Skidim.com -- just go ahead and get a new fuel filter. Yours is likely fram and falling apart on the inside.

Hotty Toddy lets go skiing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwalk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2018 at 4:10pm
Ole Miss Skier?? I skied for Mississippi State about 6 years back! and in middle TN now too.

Small world.

I'll check the voltage.

That is more info on starting than I know. I was trying just a hard start, so that could be a lot of my problem right there.

Thanks for the help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2018 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by rebel skier rebel skier wrote:

Next pull out neutral switch and deliberately pump the throttle all the way back 2 times. This sets the choke.

Cole,
The above is misleading as there isn't a cold idle cam to "set the choke". The pumping will however activate the accelerator pump and squirt gas down the intake. The choke is activated by a bimetallic spring that is warmed when power is applied when the ignition is turned on. This warms the spring so it unwinds opening the choke plate. Adjustment of the choke is made by loosening the 3 screws on the black spring cover and then rotating it so the choke plate is almost closed when the engine is cold.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rebel skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2018 at 6:28pm
So the minute the few secs where I have the key in run position are not only priming the fuel pumps, but setting the choke. Good to know.


Cole, let me know if you want to meet up at the slalom course on Percy sometime. I can show you how to get to it -- you are much closer than me as I am in Franklin. Drop me a PM. I am either there or on Tims Ford (there is a course on Tims too).




Hotty Toddy lets go skiing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2018 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by rebel skier rebel skier wrote:

So the minute the few secs where I have the key in run position are not only priming the fuel pumps, but setting the choke.



Just to help get this square, the choke closes (sets) on its own whenever the power is off.   

Having the key on opens it up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2018 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Originally posted by rebel skier rebel skier wrote:

So the minute the few secs where I have the key in run position are not only priming the fuel pumps, but setting the choke.



Just to help get this square, the choke closes (sets) on its own whenever the power is off.   

Having the key on opens it up.

Richard,
Google Holley choke. There are some good YouTubes on how the electric choke works. Chris is correct.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2018 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by rebel skier rebel skier wrote:

So the minute the few secs where I have the key in run position are not only priming the fuel pumps, but setting the choke. Good to know.


I guess I'm the only one that reads this and wonders what kind of fuel pump(s) you have and what you think an 80's SN has for a fuel pump setup to go with it's carburetor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rebel skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2018 at 10:23am
Well ... I stand corrected. My method for starting does not work for the reasons i stated. These guys know more about these boats than I ever will, so when Ken writes a comment like that you can bet the bank you dont have an electric fuel pump too.

Is this your boat:

87 SN 2001

I woukd assume given how it looks that fuel filter has not been cracked open in a number of years. You can put a wrench on the bottom of the cannister or use an oil filter wrench. Mine had not been replaced in about 5 years and the filters internals were failing.



Hotty Toddy lets go skiing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2018 at 10:39am
Richard,
Regarding "setting the choke",does your carb have a high idle cam? If so, then someone has been messing with the engine and installed an automotive carb. Do check since if it is automotive, it's not the safest and you could have a big problem.

Regarding the fuel pump priming, maybe someone's been messing with it too and installed an electric pump? If so, do check it as well to make sure it's marine rated.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwalk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2018 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by rebel skier rebel skier wrote:



Is this your boat:





That is mine! you can tell it needs some TLC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwalk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2018 at 10:28pm
Update from my adventures today:

1. Replaced all the plugs and wires - they were usable, but this could not have hurt.
2. Distributor Cap was in decent shape, slight corrosion but nothing concerning there.
3. Pulled the fuel/water filter - THIS WAS NASTY. Bottom was full of murky water/fuel. Filter was very dirty. Could not find a replacement in stock. Have one on order coming in Tuesday.
4. Started the engine, but could only get it running if gas was poured into the carb. it would run well until the gas ran out. We discovered that if you pressed the throttle body, only air would come out.

poured gas into the line leading from the filter to the pump. when the engine cranked, it spit gas out of the end of the fuel line where it hooks to the carb. so I think the pump is working.

Seems to me that i have one of two problems - A) the fuel filter is so bad that it is not letting gas to the pump. B) the carb is clogged between the fuel line entry and the bowls.

All seems weird because i ran it for 2 hours last weekend and it didn't die. Makes me think i sucked something up during that time that has clogged somewhere.

Any feedback is helpful!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2018 at 11:36pm
You could also check the anti siphon valve on top of fuel tank for clogs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rebel skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-10-2018 at 11:20am
Once that fuel filter is drained it takes multiple revelutions of the cam to get it all filled with gas - which makes much more sense know that I know there is no electric pump at the tank. You wont know until you get the fuel filter sealed up again and crank it over many times.

Maybe you can minimize this by filling tge filter body with gas through the bolts on top?

Definately investigate Ken's suggestion too.

Hotty Toddy lets go skiing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-10-2018 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by rebel skier rebel skier wrote:

Once that fuel filter is drained it takes multiple revelutions of the cam to get it all filled with gas - which makes much more sense know that I know there is no electric pump at the tank. You wont know until you get the fuel filter sealed up again and crank it over many times.

Maybe you can minimize this by filling tge filter body with gas through the bolts on top?

Definately investigate Ken's suggestion too.



Your start method really does work though You pump the gas twice and then start it

No need to turn the key first to prime anything and the choke is closed since the engine is cold.

When you turn the boat off, the choke will close over a period of time as the housing for the bimetallic spring cools off. It doesn't close as soon as the engine is turned off

You must be referring to somebody else's suggestion probably SNObsessed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bauer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2018 at 6:00pm
A couple quick comments I would add,

I would not run it until the gas is out, if you do not know the age of the gas, I would siphon it out of the tank and start fresh.

Also, if you think the carb is the problem, it looks like a standard holley 4160, you can find the list # on the front side of the carb after you remove the spark arrestor. Goggle holleycarburator list numbers and you can quickly get to a site that will tell you what re-build kit you need. There are a fair amount of parts in the rebuild kit, but if you just follow the directions and take your time, its not too bad. Rebuilding my carb made a big difference with start up, restarts, performance, etc.
Shane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwalk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2018 at 6:11pm
Thanks all for the tips! Hoping the filter does the trick.

Can someone direct me to the antisiphon valve on the gas tank? not sure what exactly I would be looking for.

Thanks for letting me know on the rebuild kit. I am a little hesitant to do that myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2018 at 7:06pm
It may look like this There are a couple different styles. Look for what looks like an extra fitting.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cwalk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2018 at 1:59am
Got another Update for everyone! I finally got my fuel filter in the mail and installed it. Once the system was primed, she ran like a champ! Pushing her off into the water on saturday, wish me luck! You can see the old filter on the right in the picture! It was NASTY!!



Starter still wanted to stick sometimes though. I will just replace the coil, solenoid, and ignition switch. Surely that will solve that problem.

However, I could use some additional advice here... Deep Cycle battery vs. Automotive Battery?

I have read deep cycle can cause problems with the ignition systems. That is what I currently have in it, and what was in it when I got the boat. Thoughts??

Thanks again for everyone's help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rebel skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-15-2018 at 2:39am
Deep cycle is for trolling motors and stereos not starting. Also those parts wont fix it if the problem is old battery cables with corrosion. Start there. Do you have old lead bolt on terminals on oxydised copper wires? You can measure it with a volt meter.
Hotty Toddy lets go skiing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2018 at 1:53am
you DO NOT want a deep cycle battery. Get a starting battery with the correct CCA (cold cranking amps) for your boat.
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