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G boat problems?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-19-2018 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by DVskier DVskier wrote:

G series boats are wrecking shorelines everywhere they are operated. I have no sympathy for the owners who experience broken prop shafts. Usually operated while surfing with a beer laden crew who is jamming rasta music at deafening sound levels.
Legislation certainly has to be coming as our shorelines continue to erode. It may be different where you live.


...and it ain't just the G boats. Everyone is getting into the game and we're all seeing more and more "surfers" out there. Seems that many of them are choosing small coves and running their Tidal Wave Generators close to shore sending huge wave after wave into home owners docks doing damage. Yes, there are 40+ yachts running round the same lake but not running back and forth all day in a quiet cove. We'll start seeing smaller lakes banning surfing machines more frequently in the next couple of years or more and more no wake zones in what normally would be great ski/ footer coves. Mark my words. A BiGGER wave is heading our way.
"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-19-2018 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by Morfoot Morfoot wrote:

Originally posted by DVskier DVskier wrote:

G series boats are wrecking shorelines everywhere they are operated. I have no sympathy for the owners who experience broken prop shafts. Usually operated while surfing with a beer laden crew who is jamming rasta music at deafening sound levels.
Legislation certainly has to be coming as our shorelines continue to erode. It may be different where you live.


...and it ain't just the G boats. Everyone is getting into the game and we're all seeing more and more "surfers" out there. Seems that many of them are choosing small coves and running their Tidal Wave Generators close to shore sending huge wave after wave into home owners docks doing damage. Yes, there are 40+ yachts running round the same lake but not running back and forth all day in a quiet cove. We'll start seeing smaller lakes banning surfing machines more frequently in the next couple of years or more and more no wake zones in what normally would be great ski/ footer coves. Mark my words. A BiGGER wave is heading our way.


Hope you’re right! I’m all for playing on the water and wakeboarding isn’t going away, but the number of private lakes banning ballasted beasts is sure to rise!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-19-2018 at 5:34pm
There a ZERO surf/wake boats on the private lakes I ski on, only AWSA approved tow boats. However I live on an 18,500 acre lake that is absolutely loaded with them. We have large houseboats and a variety of up to 50' cruisers but they usually don't cause any problems in sk coves. In fact most of them rarely leave the marinas. Owners mostly use them for dock parties.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-19-2018 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by DVskier DVskier wrote:

G series boats are wrecking shorelines everywhere they are operated. I have no sympathy for the owners who experience broken prop shafts. Usually operated while surfing with a beer laden crew who is jamming rasta music at deafening sound levels.
Legislation certainly has to be coming as our shorelines continue to erode. It may be different where you live.

I don't have any sympathy ether and, it's no different up here.
The talk has started with our lake association and for now it seems that the overwhelming opinion is legislation is needed and forthcoming.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-19-2018 at 8:59pm
Caution must be taken to engage an attorney to ensure that an over reaction by the governing body to restrict ALL towed water sports activities. Something along the lines of Capacity Weight Limits strictly enforced. This would include the excess ballast. Or place a 20 foot limit on boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-19-2018 at 9:11pm
I wonder if there's anything going on in the Wi. DNR regarding the shoreline erosion?

Kyle, any comments?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-19-2018 at 9:22pm
Stopping wake surfing isn’t going to happen easily or without a big fully lawyered up approach, at least on the big public lakes. Money rules these kinds of things and when all the boat makers pool their resources, it won’t be a slam-dunk.

Over-reactions are a big concern. Horsepower limits, boat length, slow boating —-🤬
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-19-2018 at 10:49pm
Not sure how the legislation would be worded. Speed limits or no wake zones can be measured. Wake height is a different story. No surfing? Does that mean you can't try to surf regardless of what your wake size is? No ballast? Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see what the legislation would look like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-19-2018 at 11:56pm
The industry is ahead of us in some respect.
Invasive species screening was putting a damper on water ballast systems and boat sales in the West slumped for a couple years. States were making it difficult and expensive to lake hop with a ballasted boat and boom!> here comes the wake gate. Massive wave and no water ballast.
While I agree that massive wave generating shoreline destroying old fat guy surfer boats are bad and should be burned with fire.. be careful what you ask for.
Rights once taken never come back. Never surrender any right for any purpose. Restrictions will always be broad in scope and will always outreach the intended target. The target is often missed altogether.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kylem428 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2018 at 12:28am
Hey Pete, from a regulatory standpoint we aren’t exactly in an era of increasing protections to the environment including lake ecology, shoreline habitat, etc. in fact state statutes have gone the other direction in favor of individual prop. Owners rights (think wetlands, dredging, erosion control, zoning, etc) Regarding erosion, it is easy to point the finger at wake boats because their prevalence has certainly increased in the recent past but as others have pointed out there are a lot of different boats that are heavy and run slow closer to the shoreline than they should (standard slow no wake in WI is 100’ from shore on inland lakes). I think courteous boating, etiquette, and education about understanding what happens with your wake goes a long way. This is the tact being taken by the Town of Minocqua on the Minocqua Chain. I have certainly answered more phone calls in the last 2 years about erosion perceived to be caused by wake boats but it’s hard to tell the true cause since the areas are generally busy anyway from a recreational boat standpoint. coupled with higher water the last 2 years there is really no definitive place to put the blame. The regulatory answer has been to authorize landowners to protect their shoreline investment with rock riprap (there was a broad statutory exemption passed last year for up to 200’ on many lakes where a permit used to be required and the eligibility criteria were rather strict- often preventing such armoring). It’ll be interesting to see where things go because it is also a local control/private landowner rights issue coming up against a recreational rights issue. Not sure what argument would carry the day since both of those topics seem to be important to the present folks in charge.

Kyle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2018 at 6:05am
Kyle,
Thanks for the update.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2018 at 7:14am
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:


Rights once taken never come back.

John,
Not necessarily. Our Wi. governor Walker has made lots' of reversals especially with landowners rights on what can be done to properties and shorelines. .


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2018 at 3:37pm
I think I might tend to agree with John, if the rules overshoot the original purpose it can be hard to back them down.

When they put speed limits in place on Winnipesaukee in NH I wasn't in favor of it. A lot of people I know were strongly in favor, didn't see the need for boats going faster than 45 mph, some of them were paddlers who had been scared by high speed boats. I totally understood why they wanted the limit, I enjoy paddleboards and kayaking and high speed boating is not for everyone, but as someone with a 60 mph boat I didn't like it. No way I can see them ever raising the limit or taking it away now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2018 at 8:38pm
Back to the shaft breakage issue, the thread on PN keeps on getting longer with more and more broken shafts even brand new boats of this model year (2018) freshly delivered.

I can think of lots of words to describe this situation, and none of those words are ever used in a complimentary manner

Must be lot's of board room conversation going on down in Orlando

Kinda reminds me of Pinto gas tanks exploding, Silverado ignitions locking up the steering and a number of other issues like that in the automotive world..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2018 at 9:34pm
That little evil voice in the back of my head is saying I wish they all would break the shafts. A G came by today surfing and the wake knocked two of my pier sections off.    Well, at least the big 4th week is over so I should see boat traffic back to normal.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2018 at 11:32pm
It's an amazingly foolish failure. The idea of not being able to design a shaft/strut/coupling system that won't break on a $150,000 boat is nuts. The only thing worse is not being able to fix it in successive model years. This isn't space age technology.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Faceplant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2018 at 12:07am
and yet they keep buying them while I am shaking my head .
Feels like I am hanging 10 but in reality - probably hanging 6.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2018 at 12:17am
It is OK with me if they all break shafts. I was out yesterday and 4 or 5 of these mega beasts dominated the lake and flat ruined the water for everyone else.
Each was loaded with 6-10 people, music blaring, wait, I don't call loud crappy RAP loaded with F words music, it is offensive to the max for me.   Kids today are being taught that crap is normal and should be accepted. I disagree.   They need to clean up their act.
We were swimming next to our floating boat, one of these 23' wakeboard boats went buy and the large waves nearly went over the side of my Ski Nautique.
I like to have fun as much as the next guy but those things turn my key.
I think the broken shafts are just part of a learning curve.   You have a few engineers that have built many 17-20 foot boats that worked well suddenly trying to apply past knowledge to a 23' boat that weighs double what the old boats did and carry 4,000 pounds of load to maximize the wake.
I friend of mine took me out in his new boat, he loaded it up to help his son become a better wakeboarder.   He added everything the Salesmen told him he needed.
He actually had 2,200 pounds of Iron plate on the floor in the back next to the V drive engine set up.
He also had two fat sacks filled with water to help.
His wake was 5' plus.   I surfed it and it was fun but the engine had to tach 3,500 to move the boat at 18-20 MPH.   Burned 60 gallons in about 5 hours use.
Surfing was fun.   The boat should be banned in my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2018 at 12:51am
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

I think the broken shafts are just part of a learning curve..

If so, it's an inexcusable learning curve. This isn't complex engineering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2018 at 6:37am
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

I think the broken shafts are just part of a learning curve..

If so, it's an inexcusable learning curve. This isn't complex engineering.

The "learning cure" of "complex engineering"?? I'd love to hear about why they decided to put a 1&1/8" taper on a 1&1/4" shaft so they can use props with 1&1/8" taper bores! Acme with it's "high tech" CNC machining should be able to provide the 1&1/4" bores!! To me, that's NO engineering required!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lakeview Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2018 at 9:52am
Just curious- what size is Mastercraft using on their 20 ft wake beast?? Anyone hear of any issues on that side ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2018 at 9:55am
I am sure it was an economic decision, albeit a poor one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2018 at 10:37am
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

I am sure it was an economic decision, albeit a poor one!


Yep

In this corner we have an engineer or two and in this corner we have all the bean counters and lawyers telling why it's best to just replace what breaks.

Might work out for a while till the first death or injury lawsuit.

I can see something like 10 miles out on a big lake, sudden violent storm coming in fast and the prop falls off, boat sinks or capsizes and somebody dies as a result.

A good lawyer and a huge settlement are next
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2018 at 1:00am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

I think the broken shafts are just part of a learning curve..

If so, it's an inexcusable learning curve. This isn't complex engineering.

The "learning cure" of "complex engineering"?? I'd love to hear about why they decided to put a 1&1/8" taper on a 1&1/4" shaft so they can use props with 1&1/8" taper bores! Acme with it's "high tech" CNC machining should be able to provide the 1&1/4" bores!! To me, that's NO engineering required!


Nailed it. It’s all about supplier availability of 1-1/4” bore propellers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2018 at 1:23am
So you think the boat and drivetrain should be designed around current availability of propeller selection?

Cart before the horse.

Correct Craft, ahem, "Nautique", has lagged behind upsizing their prop shafts for 2 decades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redritereturn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2018 at 1:30am
The lakes up there aren't big enough for the 'ocean liners'! I went to into the 'boat store' to buy a hose for my '91 this weekend and, they didn't have a 1" id water hose, and when I was walking out I looked at the prop on a new G23 or whatever and it was about the same size as a twin screw diesel boat, and they wonder why prop repairs were the order of the holiday week!!! I hope I didn't mess up your pier Saturday evening
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2018 at 1:35am
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

So you think the boat and drivetrain should be designed around current availability of propeller selection?

Cart before the horse.

Correct Craft, ahem, "Nautique", has lagged behind upsizing their prop shafts for 2 decades.


No—I’m saying (agreeing with you) they need a bigger shaft and appropriately bored prop. Are there no 1-1/4” props
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2018 at 1:40am
If you're asking me I don't know. Nor do I care.
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