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91 nautique excel will not throttle up under load

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Shua4242 View Drop Down
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    Posted: June-24-2018 at 1:59pm
Good morning, I had just put a rebuilt engine back into my 1991 excel nautique last week. With this process, I have gone through new fuel lines cleaned the gas tank it has an hei pertronix distributor on it. I got it running on the trailer and it runs great, will rev up and go in and out of gear fine. I set the timing at idle too at 10 degrees before tdc on the trailer too. I took it to the lake yesterday and it would stall going into gear and out. Once I would get it into gear, it would not rev up. It would only go about 6mph and I tried moving the distributor around and it would not go. Any ideas? also while i was messing with it, I noticed the tranny slipping so I looked and tranny fluid was laying in the bottom of my boat. I went and got some, added it, and it didn't leak any the rest of the time. (I think it came out of the vent) Thanks in advance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by Shua4242 Shua4242 wrote:

The Trans was not slipping before the new engine, and I was told that it was rebuilt when i bought the boat a year ago. It looks like it has been out anyway as it has been repainted.

What about the V drive? How's the prop shaft alignment?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shua4242 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 4:26pm
I did not check the alignment, when I do, I will get back to you on that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by Shua4242 Shua4242 wrote:

I did not check the alignment, when I do, I will get back to you on that.

Josh,
I noticed you were searching for "prop shaft adjustment". Here's prop shaft alignment. "Alignment" is the key word.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shua4242 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 7:42pm
Thanks for that!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shua4242 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 7:46pm
I am still a little unfamiliar with using this site yet for searching, I did check my prop alignment and I could spin it with one hand by grabbing the prop, but i had to use two hands to spin the shaft. I used a feeler gauge and could not get it to slide into the coupler at any point in the rotation. I just happen to try to spin the transmission mount alignment nut by hand when I was looking at the alignment. So the previous owner did not have those tight. This boat does have a vdrive on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shua4242 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 7:49pm
Now that I am thinking about issues, my tachometer seems to jump around a little bit and does not work right. It is a new gauge I put in this winter and at idle it says its at 2000 rpm and it doesn't really move through reving the boat up. Could this be a timing issue and since the timing is messed up, would it make my tach messed up?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by Shua4242 Shua4242 wrote:

I used a feeler gauge and could not get it to slide into the coupler at any point in the rotation.

Josh,
You've missed the point of how the feeler gauge is used. Yes, with the coupling halves tightened, you can't get the gauge in. but, the coupling halves need to be loose. You use the feeler gauges to check for parallelism between the coupling faces. It sound not be out of parallel more than the .003". However, if you can spin the prop by hand it does sound good. Check it out anyway.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 8:20pm
Lets not get hung up on alignment issues when the real question was it not running right.
Why did you do the rebuild in the first place? Is the ignition system the same as it was before the rebuild?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shua4242 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 9:04pm
At idle and on the trailer it sounds like it is running just fine, but when I try to set the timing, i cant quite get it to run at 10 degrees before tdc, it isn't happy there but will run if I adjust the idle speed up higher, and I did the rebuild because I bought it In the Fall last year and the previous owner did not winterize it right (the block was cracked) I did not know this until this spring when I took it to the lake and after aout 2 hours it was full of water. I used the block out of an 1989 ford truck with my camshaft and the truck bottom end, the truck motor only had 20,000 miles on it. The crank is drilled both directions so it can run in reverse. This is the same ignition system as last trip on the lake when the engine filled with water. (engine ran fine then)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shua4242 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 9:05pm
I did miss that point, I will loosen the bolts and do the alignment that way, Thanks for all the input I have gotten from everyone as I would like to have this sorted out before July 4th
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 9:21pm
What's your firing order and have you double checked that the wires are run correctly?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 9:33pm
Where are our Excel experts?? By that time frame '91 were they using right hand engines? By then most SN were using lefty's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Where are our Excel experts?? By that time frame '91 were they using right hand engines? By then most SN were using lefty's


Far from an Excel expert but they had RH engines at that time.

Here's an old thread Gary, complete with pictures

old thread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shua4242 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 10:42pm
It is a RH engine and I have checked the firing order and plugs, all match up. I just did the alignment, and it was already perfect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2018 at 10:59pm
But what is the firing order?

People have screwed up their firing order,cylinder numbering, mixed up a couple of plug wires etc and had those same symptoms trying to accelerate which were magically cured when they realized it and then got it right

Here's a picture

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shua4242 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 12:06am
Figure 6 matches the numbers on the tag on the engine, and that is the way I have it set, because I had originally thought it was a couple crossed wires.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 1:36am
Years ago, before this site, when I rebuilt my HM 302 in the Mustang,I bought a reverse rotation cam from Crane. Used the firing order on the cam card and ran it in at 2k at the dock. Went to go for its first drive ran much like yours. Long story short the cam card showed the reverse 302 firing order when in fact they ground the cam to the reverse 351 order which is different. I had to pull the valve covers,turn it over by hand and watch the rockers in order to figure out what they did. Just saying.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 9:36am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Lets not get hung up on alignment issues when the real question was it not running right.

Let's not get hung up on firing orders as a possible cause of the engine running right.
Gary,
My early thought was since the engine was just dropped in without an alignment it could have caused such a bound up prop shaft that could limit RPM's


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shua4242 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 9:54am
I know the cam is correct as it was an original one with the factory motor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 10:02am
Originally posted by Shua4242 Shua4242 wrote:

I know the cam is correct as it was an original one with the factory motor

Gary's not saying your cam is wrong.

He's giving you an example of what happened to him with firing order, plug wire mixups, but you've obviously at least double or triple checked all this so it must be something else
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 10:10am

Originally posted by Shua4242 Shua4242 wrote:

I just did the alignment, and it was already perfect.
Keep it as original as YOU want it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 10:19am
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:


Originally posted by Shua4242 Shua4242 wrote:

I just did the alignment, and it was already perfect.

Duane,
You didn't read the events in the order they occurred. I've done it too!


I brought up the alignment as a possible cause BEFORE he checked it. Then of course Gary has to step in and work me over for even bringing up the alignment!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 10:21am
So how's your carburetor?

Idle mixture screw adjustment good ?

Accelerator pump adjustment/clearance as it should be?

How's the anti siphon valve at the gas tank?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 7:57pm
I installed a Pertronix distributor and coil on my BB chevy and it ran great for about 50 hours. Suddenly I had the same symptoms as you: it would idle and rev with no load but would not accept throttle under load. The problem was a bad Pertronix coil. I changed it for a generic GM oil filled coil and it was back to running great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shua4242 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 8:08pm
I had a professional rebuild the carb while I was rebuilding the engine, he told me how to adjust the air screws, I got the one side to adjust but the other side would not make a difference if I screwed the screw all the way in or out. I will check the coil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shua4242 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 8:10pm
I never knew there was a valve in the tank so I will pull the sender and check it. Thanks for the help guys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by Shua4242 Shua4242 wrote:

I never knew there was a valve in the tank so I will pull the sender and check it. Thanks for the help guys.


Don't pull the sender, the anti siphon valve is external on top of the tank.

The hose to the fuel pump connects to the valve. unhook the hose and unscrew the valve.

Then you can see if it's plugged with debris.

It looks just like a barbed hose fitting, but there's a ball and spring inside of it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 9:14pm
Here's a picture anti siphon valve s on the left, the suction tube for the tank is on the right



It's a good time to blow out the suction tube too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2018 at 11:04pm
Since you'll have the rear bench out and the floor off, It is a good time to switch to a WEMA sender for that tank. (stick, rather than float arm). Measure to the tank bottom through the sender hole. Order a sender 1 inch shorter than the tank (11 inches IIRC for my Excel). They are worry-free and tame that big tank slosh better. Original gauge is 240-33 ohm American Stewart Warner type (Not European, 0-80 ohm).
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