Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Lifter question
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Lifter question

 Post Reply Post Reply   
Author
AlfaDon View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September-18-2011
Location: San Leandro, Ca
Status: Offline
Points: 192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlfaDon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lifter question
    Posted: July-12-2018 at 5:50am
I'm trying to finish up my rebuild in time for vacation. Heads are on and the Hyd roller lifters were installed a few months ago.   Tonight I installed the roller rockers and when i tried to adjust preload I got some odd results. As I spun the poly locks down on the rockers some of the lifters felt like there was a fair amount of resistance to the point that I knew just when to stop and give it one revolution for pre-load.   Other lifters felt like the spring inside was pretty weak and I couldn't tell when pre-load started. On one of the rockers, as I kept turning the poly lock waiting for resistance (or waiting for the pushrod to tighten up), I felt like I might have jammed the roller against the cam lobe.

Needless to say, I need to pull out that pair of lifters and check the rollers.

Why am I getting different resistance while adjusting pre-load? Is it because some of the lifters are pumped up from their oil bath a few months ago, and some are not?

When I'm adjusting pre-load, should I pay more attention to when the lifter plunger starts to drop, instead of resistance in spinning the pushrod?

Thanks-Don
Back to Top
DayTony View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: June-30-2013
Location: Salem MA
Status: Offline
Points: 775
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-12-2018 at 6:59am
Are you trying to adjust your rockers while they are on compresion?
It sounds like it.
Adjust the exhaust as the intake begins to close and adjust the intake as soon as the exhaust starts to open. That will ensure you are on the right side of the cam lobe.

***edit***
Make sure you are rotating it the same direction it runs or your preload will be way off.
1988 Barefoot nautique-454
Back to Top
KENO View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: June-05-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2883
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-13-2018 at 8:30am
What procedure are you following for adjusting these?

I think I'd give all the lifters a fresh oil bath after a few months of sitting.

What engine is this?

Is this the 351 being converted to fuel injection with a 302 injection system that I've seen you mention in the past year or so?

Has it run yet or is this the finishing stages of getting it together?

When's vacation?
Back to Top
TRBenj View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: June-29-2005
Location: NWCT
Status: Online
Points: 19440
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-13-2018 at 8:48am
Not sure why the direction of rotating the engine matters when setting preload... either you’re on the base circle of the cam or you’re not.

So long as you’re not attempting to set preload while you’re on the lobe (valve open) you should be ok. On used lifters, I have noticed great variability in how pumped up a lifter can be, which greatly changes how setting the preload feels. So long as it is confirmed to be pumped up and not collapsed, adjust the rocker until you’re at zero lash and then the recommended turns beyond that (I go ~5/8) and you should be ok. Just pay very special attention to finding the zero lash point.

This is all assuming that you’re using non-factory Ford heads (factory irons would have non-adjustable valvetrain and would require shimming).
Back to Top
AlfaDon View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September-18-2011
Location: San Leandro, Ca
Status: Offline
Points: 192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlfaDon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-13-2018 at 10:28pm
Hi Guys. Thanks for the replies. I was told to adjust them on compression but at the point when the spark is firing. Then follow the firing order at 90* for each one. While it made sense originally, I realize that even though the valves are closed it doesn’t mean the lifter is on the base circle.

So I then followed the procedure DayTony suggested and while it seemed to work better I still think I’m having problems because the lifters aren’t pumped up with oil. I’m not able to put enough preload on them ( +- 1 turn) to have them compress properly.

I then got a drill to spin the oil pump, but I didn’t have a filter on it and it blew oil across the floor of the garage. The new filter arrived today from Summit and I’ll give it another go tomorrow.

Keno- This is the same 351W I am planning to convert to EFI. My machinist convinced me that I needed to break it in with a carb so I wasn’t trying to mess with the fuel mapping and spark on a brand new motor.

Tim- Thanks for confirming what I’ve been figuring out. I read from an engine builder that preload should be between .020-.060. I was experimenting with .040 on a dial indicator and I was turning the adjuster about 4 flats. 5/8-3/4 of a full turn.
Back to Top
MrMcD View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: January-28-2014
Location: Folsom, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 1374
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2018 at 3:25am
My experience with Hydraulic lifters is you have one chance to set them correctly when new on install. If you make a mistake the lifter has already been compressed and there is no oil supply to pump them back up until the engine runs.
I have helped a couple guys that started adjusting like you did and called for help after the fact.
We had to fire it up with the valve covers off and do a running adjustment to get it right.
They make clips to control the oil spray or you can make a splash guard out of cardboard to catch and deflect oil back into your lower end.
I cut cardboard about 8" tall and 24" long. Bend it so it fits inside the head just inside the gasket surface so it sits in the bottom of the head and makes a splash guard for you..   There is no pressure to leak your oil as long as your splash guard is tall enough to catch the oil squirting from the push rods.. The cardboard just has to be in place to let the oil run back down to your head surface where it drains to the lower end.
Some guys take an old valve cover and cut the top out to do the same job but I have had good luck with cardboard. Leave one valve cover on and adjust the other side, then switch.
Adjusting a hydraulic lifter running is easy. When the engine starts some will be missing and some will be clattering.   Start at one end and back off till you know that valve is loose. Adjusted to the top of its travel.
You may even be able to see it is loose on some when you start it.
Back off a half turn, stop and listen.   If it clatters for a short time and then quiets the lifter piston is still down in the hole. Back off another 1/2 and wait again. Do this till it keeps clacking after you loosen and does not quiet down.   This will have the lifter at the top of its adjustment.   Now tighten slowly till you hear the noise just stop.   This is zero lash.   As Tim advised now give it another 5/8 turn tighter, that is a good number. It will miss for about 15 seconds and then quiet down. You now have the pre load done.   move on to the next lifter till done. At first you may have several clacking, address them first till you can hear what is going on to properly adjust all 16.
For lifters that may be extra tight when you start, back them off a 1/2 turn, the engine will miss in that cylinder till the lifer adjusts and the miss will go away. Back off again waiting 15-30 seconds each time to make sure the lifter has adjusted before continuing.

Once it is clattering/tapping, take it down to zero very slowly, the point where the lifter just gets quiet, zero lash. Wait 15 seconds to make sure, then you can take it down the 5/8 turn to finish.
This process is very easy and pretty fast.   You can do all 16 in 15 minutes.   The only issue is making sure your backsplash is not spilling oil all over your boat.
I have used cardboard a few times without issue. Cut it straight, bend it to fit carefully and it will work.
The last one I helped on was a former NHRA Top Fuel guy from the early 60's. All his engines were always solid lifters.   In his 80's now he was rebuilding a 1966 Mustang for his Grandson. He did all the internal engine work top notch but did not understand Hydraulic lifters.   He tried to adjust the hydraulics using solid lifter procedure which got him all messed up.   When he called for help he had tried to adjust several times and could not get the engine to start.
I backed the lifters off and got it to start right up and adjusted them.   By the time we did the cam break in a lifter was starting to clatter.   Pulled the cover and adjusted the noisy one again.   Put the cover back on and in 10 minutes it was noisy again. Some of you know what was going on.   One lobe was going flat on the cam.   
A bad start up with extended cranking can and will destroy a new cam if it is flat tappets.
A Roller conversion is a very good idea, it eliminates cam break in and the risk of a flat camshaft.
Now for the Boat part of this note, this was a 302 in the 68 Mustang and it ran an Automatic trans.   The first cam was chosen by the owner, it was aggressive and lumpy at idle.   I did not think it would work well with this Automatic equipped car. I chose the 302 Marine Grind camshaft for the replacement.   Very strong at idle and low end and pulls hard to 5,000 RPM.   Worked really well in this Mustang. No issue with Power Brake vacuum and you could idle is smooth at 600 RPM. They were happy.
That first cam may have pulled hard to 6,500 RPM but it would have been a dog around town in the Automatic and hard to idle down below 900 RPM.
!
Back to Top
DayTony View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: June-30-2013
Location: Salem MA
Status: Offline
Points: 775
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-14-2018 at 8:16am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Not sure why the direction of rotating the engine matters when setting preload... either you’re on the base circle of the cam or you’re not.

.


Using my above mentioned procedure it would make a big difference. Remember the lobes are not 180 degrees apart. If they were that would be true.
Without writing a hundred words I drew it out. See if this helps.


Sorry cant figure out how to rotate it.
1988 Barefoot nautique-454
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2016 | Bagley Productions, LLC