351 w harmonic damper wobble

What was wrong with the original balancer?

tmcboat wrote: HI All, I installed a new summit racing for 1984 351 winsor oem 28 oz. harmonic balancer- I line it up with the #1 cylinder contact on the distributor and remove the powerbond #1203 harmonic balancer with only 110 hours on it and line the new one up with the crank shaft key on the snout in the same position as the old one noting it was set at 10 degrees on the pointer and degree scale on the old the harmonic balancer. Once I installed the new balancer I started the engine up it ran fine at 675 rpm but when I put the timing light on the pointer which is set at about 2:00 no light and no balancer degree scale showing. I shot the timing light between the space gap of the water pump and the alternator . I then went to a 3:00 position with the timing light which is under the alternator on the right side of the engine and found the timing scale and the timing light blinking on 10 degrees. Why is the scale and the ponter 2+ inches from where it was with the old balancer?. The new balancer is 6.4 inches diameter and the old one is 6.53 inches in diameter. Is the engine in timing based on the new location of where I have to shoot the timing light at 3:00 verses old position of 2:00? I reused my 1973 timing chain cover with the same pointer and it matched up with the powerbond #1203 but not the Summit balancer thanks, tmcboat

Ford made balancers with the timing marks in different places depending on the automotive application. Based on your old posts I think you have a normal automotive rotation engine and it's hooked to a Volvo outdrive. The Pertronix distributor you have only comes with a normal rotation gear is one other thing that says normal auto rotation

Depending on water pump inlet location, the pointer was in different spots so because of that the scale on the balancer had to be in different spots.

You most likely have one for one of the other pointer locations.

Your balancer will work just fine, but you'll have to get the engine at TDC and make a TDC or zero line on the balancer and then mark the graduations from there or use one of the timing tapes from summit for that damper. diameter

You could also pull it back off and line up the keyway on both dampers, compare markings and mark the new one that way.

Or..................you could return it for one with the right markings already there.

Or................if you have one of the newer advance timing lights all you need is the zero or TDC mark and you'll be able to time it that way.

wow,
you really know some things- I took a dial indicator and measure the front outside edge of the old powerband #1203 and turned the balancer 10 times to make sure I was getting a real reading and the dial indicator was showing the run out of 6 to 8 thousandths- I took the old balancer and put it on a glass stove top and still the run out was about the same so I order summit # sum -163289 which had 3 different sets of timing marks. I lined up new balancer key way with the key way of the old balancer and it was lined up on 10 degrees with the distributor contact for the #1 cylinder. Summit said in their instructions that if I did this that I would not have to go back to tdc since I was already on the #1 cylinder with the distributor and the timing had not changed ? I took the #1 plug out and a rod and saw the rod go up to the maximum and it was at 10 degrees and the distributor was at the #1 contact? Is this right? do I need the pointer if I shoot the light at 3:00 and get 10 degrees blinking? I think the pointer location on my 1973 timing cover is off based on the summit one size fits all balancer. I am a little lost on this one so a little more info please . Thanks, tmcboat

8122pbrainard wrote: KENO wrote: Or..................you could return it for one with the right markings already there. Or................if you have one of the newer advance timing lights all you need is the zero or TDC mark and you'll be able to time it that way. Or...……………. you could have had the old one rebuilt.

Now who really wants to rebuild an old cheap aftermarket balancer Pete for more than a new aftermarket one cost him.?

Certainly not the "keep it original" guy

Damper Dudes or Damper Doctor in Anderson CA does a really nice job rebuilding Dampers.   They exist because aftermarket dampers are very expensive and all the Old Car restorers want the original came with part rebuilt.
The 351W is not anything special so a rebuilt damper should be available most anywhere.

Hey guys,
I just did a run out test on the new harmonic balancer with the dial indicator- I made a 12 complete rotations- marked 6 spots and took measurements on each spot for the 12 rotations-- I had some trouble with the dial indicator slipping- retighten- retighten- magnet would not hold a couple of times and had to start all over - I had to put the pointer at an angle in the middle of the balancer due to timing marks on both sides ect. Is this ok to have the indicator point at an slight angle? there was a consistent .oo5 max out of range from zero to 5 thousandths between spot #1 and spot #3 I marked 6 spots on the balancer and the indicator at zero is at #1 spot, #2 spot .002, #3 spot .005 , #4 spot .001 . then back to zero t #1 spot. Would this make the pulley wobble? With that much difference in the balancer between spot #1 and spot #3= .005 variation leads me to believe I have either a bent snout or something wrong in the engine? If I have a bent snout would a bent snout cause damage to the crank shaft front bearings ect? I have only 110 hours on the engine. I will pull the balancer and dial test the snout shaft if I can get to it with the dial indicator and take the readings. If it is the snout that's bent can I fix it without pulling the lower unit and the engine?-ooch The engine is set down in a engine box- typical inboard/outboard and not much room in the front to work with- I have to lay on my stomach to get to the snout . Your thoughts and suggestions please. thanks tmcboat

Hard to believe a crank got bent at the end, but if that is true, I would just run it as is.

If crank is already bad so you won't make it any worse with belt vibration.

Hi All,
I just tested on a glass top stove the 1973 steel oem pulley- the bottom side that mounts to the balancer- only 1/3 diameter of the base about 4 inches ---i could slide a sheet of copy paper under it less than .001 thickness- pretty close to level I think.. I turned the pulley over to the front face= 6- 5/64 inch diamaeter and about 1/3 of the diameter I could slide 3 sheets of copy paper under it = .0055 so unless I am not testing the pulley right -it   seems level and reasonably true- but the wobble in the pulley still looks like about 1/16 + inch when I have the harmonic balancer with run out of .005. I have the pulley and the harmonic balancer leveled with washer spacers and aligns with the raw water pump, alternator, and engine water pump but still a lot of wobble in the pulley?due to the .005 run out in the crankshaft snout = result in the - same .005 run out in the new harmonic balancer- your thoughts and suggestions please. tmcboat

Duane in Indy wrote: Paper is usually .003 thick If it bothers you enough then chuck it up in a lathe and cut the mounting face

Or just get the rubber mallet out and whack it on the high spot while it's chucked up. If it's the stamped steel version, it will move.

Ken, you're right, balancer is likely to leak oil badly due to seal surface wobble.

I think you'll have a total mess on your hands if you do something like this.

This would easily fall under Pete's definition of a hack job.

Also the words "slide the balancer off" jump out and get my attention.

Hopefully your balancer needs a puller to get it off right now or through any of the checks you've been doing already or the fit is too loose ..

How about a picture of your snout measuring?

I still can't fathom how a crank gets bent at the end without sustaining major engine damage.

Maybe it was been bad when it was installed?

I did use a puller and installer on the balancer installation-I talked to marine tex on the grey epoxy and the tech support said it would work as a filler on the bent shaft.- the epoxy has 4,000 adhesion and 12,000 tensil strength. A friend of mine who for years rebuilt engines for a big company said that since the engine has 110 running hours and runs smooth that he didn't thing 25 more hours would cause a problem.. He said I don't have many options- pull the engine and have a new rebuilt warranty engine installed
this fall or when this engine fells and or try the epoxy filler to reduce the wobble and extend the engine life maybe. I know its out there but I don't have many options-- your thoughts and suggestions please- thanks, tmcboat

You seem to be hell bent on doing something with the epoxy to make a bent snout have no wobble on the end.

It doesn't pass any sanity check I can think off.

I can't see anything good happening with this epoxy job..

It's been said more than once either here or by your friend, run it for those 25 hours, you've run it for over 100 this way.already with no issues

Nobody can understand your epoxy idea or agree with it

Not too many people jumping in with opinions because it's a choice you have to make knowing how and where you're using the boat.

Hey guys,
You all are right--- the epoxy idea was a desperate attempt to remedy a problem that really can't be fixed that way. I inspected the front edge of the snout and it has 2 divits in it. I can't believe I never notice until one of your brought up the fact it could have been dropped or the crankshaft had not been inspected and built to oem spec.so Carolina Machine is the one who sold me the rebuilt engine and I think I got stuck bad-- thousands of $$$ and after about 50 hours of research and dial indicator testing and disassembling and reinstalling ,-belts, pulley, installing new harmonic balancer that there has been no noticeable change in the wobble of the pulley/balancer so I am going to run this engine until something major happens. When it breaks then I will get a new rebuilt engine and check everything out before I accept the engine. Yes I am upset about this whole engine thing- a lot of time and money and worry because a engine rebuilder stuck me- For anyone having a engine rebuilt - be sure and check everything you can- Don't assume the engine rebuilder is building the engine to specifications. Thanks for all your time and input. tmcboat