slow idle rattle |
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Root
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2006 Location: louisiana Status: Offline Points: 214 |
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Posted: August-06-2006 at 10:11am |
I have an 86sn and every thing works great except when I put it in gear and idle real slow somthing rattles. sounds like somthing on the shaft to me. but if you give it a little bit more gas and idle a little faster it goes away. just at the slowest moving idle possible it rattles. If anyone ever had this or can give some information on what to look for or check. Thinking maby its a bearing or a bushing. Thanks
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RootRacing
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2635 |
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With the boat out of the water, grab the end of the shaft and see if there is any play up and down or side to side. If there's alot, the strut bushing is worn.
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Tim D
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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the noise you are hearing is called planatary knock,happens on my boat at 400 rpms,idle it up a hair or listen to the rattle. replaced a complete tranny once because of this noise,1964 mustang,210 intercepter,tranny pulled good did not leak,just a funny noise. so i purchased a brand new unit from Woody,S/east cc.new unit did the same,woody says 600 rpm idle. expensive lesson learned........
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Root
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2006 Location: louisiana Status: Offline Points: 214 |
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thanks for the replys. Strut bushing is ok. It does idle real slow in gear, so I will idle it up.
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RootRacing
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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Have had the same experience as boat dr, only I didnt replace the trans before turning up the idle. The 400 rpm idle is a lot of fun but the trans just doesn't like it...
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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I believe the noise is probably coming from the damper plate. Basically the springs rust and break thus cuasing the rattle at low rpm's. This is what probably needs to be replaced. Worth a look.
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Root
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2006 Location: louisiana Status: Offline Points: 214 |
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thanks for the imformation about the damper. I will check that, and yes I like it to idle real slow in gear, but will idle it up like the boat doctor said if the damper doesnt fix it.
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RootRacing
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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Also Set your air screws in gear. A smoother idle will result, as well as off-idle performance.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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your idle should be set at 600 rpm in gear about 650-700 out of gear so if it is lower it's not set correctly and replacing your damper plate will be a waiste of cash and time.
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2635 |
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You have a good running motor if it will idle in gear at 400 rpms.
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Tim D
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jimbo
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 473 |
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How do you check the damper plate to know if it needs replacing?
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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You remove the engine or the transmission and visually inspect, not fun, that is why it is a good thing to replace even if not broken when you have the engine out for a major overhaul. Certainly it is a lot easier to try a higher idle speed first in this situation...-Joe.
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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Sigh. Idle numbers are correct, but the engine/tranny should not rattle even if the idle speed is set below 600rpms. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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Sorry David but i have to completely disagree with that. Even with a properly applied and perfectly working damper idle speed is a factor in proper fuction of the transmission. The lower the speed the more likely it is that slight misfires, firing order etc will cause the transmission to not feel a steady enough output from the engine to prevent this type of noise. Constant running at low speeds while this condition is occuring will cause failure of the transmission. Borg Warner has in fact recommended raising the idle speed up to 1000-1200 for situations where the springs in the damper maybe weakened or misapplied slightly. Flywheel size, shaft length and weight, propeller balance, etc all have an effect on the proper application of a damper. Either way believe me low rpm alone can cause this issue and it can destroy your trans.
-Joe. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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Oh and for those of you that may decide to get "uncorrect" with your engine rotation direction be aware that some dampers only operate correctly in one direction...
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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Joe:
You will notice that I never recommended a lower than 600 rpm idle speed and, in fact, stated that I agree with the figure. What I did say is that if everything is in good order, the engine/tranny should not rattle when the rpm falls (I did say "set" and maybet should have said "falls") below 600 rpms. If it does, something is worn, broken or otherwise not in proper adjustment. FWIW (not recommending), when I was having trouble with my '77 Martinique, the rpms were frequently under 600 rpms for extended periods of time while idling around. The worn distributor and corroded carburetor made it almost impossible to get a steady idle speed from one day to the next. So, close was good enough until I finally decided to replace the components. Never did the engine/tranny rattle or make unusual noise. So, what I am saying again is that I think that the problem with "Rootracing's" setup is that he has a weak or failed damper plate. Sure, raising the idle might mask the problem, but that does not make the underlying problem go away. If the rattle goes away at 600 rpms, then fine, he might want to just leave well enough alone and it may last a long time. If the rattle is present at 600 rpms, my suggestion is to inspect and/or replace the damper plate. That is my advice, because that is what I would do. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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My 83 had the rattle when I idled at 375 to 500, it also has a brand new damper plate this year, my engine was precision balanced when it was built last year, has an appropriate mass flywheel, the boat has a new acme 541, a straight shaft, and a new last year harmonic damper, and she runs out smooth as silk. Could there be something wrong with the transmission, yeah sure it came with the boat and I didn't take it apart I just indexed the pump, but I doubt it. I continue to disagree with the statement ...
but the engine/tranny should not rattle even if the idle speed is set below 600rpms. nothing in my experience or borg warner's installation instructions correlate to that |
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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Well, could be. I base things on my experiences. Neither my '77 nor my '93 would rattle when the idle was below 600rpm (for whatever reason).
Why don't we just leave it at: Set idle to 600 rpm in gear. If it still rattles, inspect the damper plate for broken (or weak) spring(s). A loose prop will cause a rattle as will other things as well. |
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jimbo
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 473 |
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My tranny is out right now. The boat is an '84. I've only had it three years so not sure of the history. I looked at the damper plate but it looks like the springs are sealed (or just overed on one side?). How do I check the springs?
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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That vintage, if the tranny is out I would just replace it. Summer is too short to fix things twice.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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I concur
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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yep, me too.
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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you guys dont have any problem spending his money do you?????????? sounds like NASA,with enough money you can make a rock fly........my .02 worth boat dr
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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Mental note **
Don't fly Boat Dr Airlines ...where we run it til it fails |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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Relative to the opportunity cost of being down a week or two during a short summer season its very cheap insurance, when you add the fact that it could also save real costs by preventing transmission damage its basically a no brainer. Its pretty much the cost of a tank of gas to do it now and not worry about it for another twenty years. Lets face it we are not talking about a cheap sport...
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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gottaski..........boat repair shops,like mine, love that state of mind .my dad called it penny wise and dollar foolish.but who am i to say.......
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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maybe i misunderstood,dampner or tranny. dampner would be a cost effective way to resolve said problem,i understood remedy was to replace tranny,forgive me old wise one...boat dr
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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Yes, dampner.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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jimbo
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 473 |
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OK, another $90 bucks!
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