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1977 302 PCM Engine

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Mille1sj View Drop Down
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    Posted: October-16-2018 at 3:42pm
Does anyone have pictures of an original 302 that would have been in a Ski Tique? We pulled our engine today to get ready for our stringer replacement. We did a compression test and found the number 6 cylinder at 0 psi.

I started removing parts so we can diagnose the problem and see what needs to be fixed. While it is apart, I want to have components powder coated. I would like to return it to the original color scheme, but I do not know exactly what that is. There are multiple shades of Ford blue currently, some place parts that I replaced. The original manifolds and risers were green, I painted them blue when I replaced them.

Any help on correct colors or pictures would be greatly appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 3:44pm
Depends on the year, I believe ‘77 would have been pretty dark blue with bright green manifolds. I want to say it’s darker than the off the shelf options (at least the ford colors). Did you run a wet compression test after running it dry?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 3:55pm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mille1sj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Depends on the year, I believe ‘77 would have been pretty dark blue with bright green manifolds. I want to say it’s darker than the off the shelf options (at least the ford colors). Did you run a wet compression test after running it dry?


Yes, ran it again with some oil added, still showed 0 psi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mille1sj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Ford blue engine paint


Thanks, I’ll compare some of these colors to our. Our intake looks limitation to the brighter old ford blue, the block is a dark blue with almost a slight green tint to it. We did have the bright green manifolds originally, I wasn’t a huge fan of the green, but I may go back to it to keep it original.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 4:28pm
Steve,
Here's the 302 Escort in my 77 Tique.

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

The Escorts were made for a couple years. PCM bought them and for about another year continued making the engines under the "Escort" name. They are nothing more than a marinized Ford.




Why the powder coat? I feel a wet engine paint with a primer would hold up better.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 4:28pm
That would indicate a valvetrain issue, so that is good news.

The Waukesha (and early PCM’s) used a darker blue than the ones shown in the thread that Pete linked. I think reid had some custom mixed for jmurphs promo. The 71 HM in that thread is ford blue (1601), and there are some pics of the Ford Dark blue in there also. Old ford blue is somewhere in between the 2 in darkness... that’s what Pete’s escort appears to be.

Now there are some all blue (manifolds included) PCM’s (not including the rebranded escorts) that we’re made around ‘77 that could have been old ford blue... but I haven’t seen very many like that. They used something darker with the green manifolds that were more typical both before and after that point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mille1sj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Steve,
Here's the 302 Escort in my 77 Tique.

[QUOTE=8122pbrainard] The Escorts were made for a couple years. PCM bought them and for about another year continued making the engines under the "Escort" name. They are nothing more than a marinized Ford

Why the powder coat? I feel a wet engine paint with a primer would hold up better.


I am not opposed to wet paint and primer. I assumed powder would hold up better being baked on. If that’s not the case, wet paint would be fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by Mille1sj Mille1sj wrote:

I am not opposed to wet paint and primer. I assumed powder would hold up better being baked on. If that’s not the case, wet paint would be fine.

Steve,
I feel you have the wrong idea about powder coating. The "baking" is not to adhere the coating but to melt it. It's basically a plastic powder sprayed onto a warm surface and then when it goes back into the oven the powder melts together. Adhesion has been improved through the years but it's still not as good as wet paint where there's a chemical bonding. Have you ever had the plastic coating on plier handles slip off? I always use that as an analogy.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

That would indicate a valvetrain issue, so that is good news.

The Waukesha (and early PCM’s) used a darker blue than the ones shown in the thread that Pete linked. I think reid had some custom mixed for jmurphs promo. The 71 HM in that thread is ford blue (1601), and there are some pics of the Ford Dark blue in there also. Old ford blue is somewhere in between the 2 in darkness... that’s what Pete’s escort appears to be.

Now there are some all blue (manifolds included) PCM’s (not including the rebranded escorts) that we’re made around ‘77 that could have been old ford blue... but I haven’t seen very many like that. They used something darker with the green manifolds that were more typical both before and after that point.


Here's a picture of what Tim is talking about, it's real genuine 42 year old 76 Pleasurecraft blue on a carburetor. The picture was taken with no flash in normal room light

It definitely darker than what Pete is trying to pass off as anything close

It was never glossy from day 1 . You'd probably have to custom mix some blue and black if you really want to have the same color.

I also took pictures of the 76 valve covers but the bright sun kinda affected the shots.

And....I still have the butt ugly green manifolds too if you want to try matching that color

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

It definitely darker than what Pete is trying to pass off as anything close

I wasn't trying to "pass off" anything.

Note that I stated my engine is an Escort.

Note that the ID of Steve's engine hadn't been determined when I posted.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 7:06pm
Sure looks pretty close enough to this-

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 7:09pm
What color Gary? Not one of the 3 mentioned so far...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 7:24pm
Here's a picture showing PCM blue compared to Dark Ford Blue fresh from the spray can

Even 42 years of aging won't make it the same

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

It definitely darker than what Pete is trying to pass off as anything close

I wasn't trying to "pass off" anything.

Note that I stated my engine is an Escort.

Note that the ID of Steve's engine hadn't been determined when I posted.




He must have changed the title of the thread then
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 7:28pm
Well it's what mine was painted before I got it so I just copied it. Being a HM I now think it should have been the lighter shade but this has kinda grown on me. I used Bill Hirsch engine enamel, "Ford Blue '41-42 up to '48"     link
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 7:43pm
For Steve

If you really want to match the original color, I can send you the top of that secondary diaphragm chamber. I have no real attachment to it and have others that can take it's place.

If you want it send me a PM with your address
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 7:48pm
Why do I have this wild urge to go listen to some oldies like "Fly like an Eagle"   "Abracadabra" and   "Take the money and run" ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Steve,
I feel you have the wrong idea about powder coating. The "baking" is not to adhere the coating but to melt it. It's basically a plastic powder sprayed onto a warm surface and then when it goes back into the oven the powder melts together. Adhesion has been improved through the years but it's still not as good as wet paint where there's a chemical bonding. Have you ever had the plastic coating on plier handles slip off? I always use that as an analogy.


All of the powder coating that I have had done had to be sand blasted first to give it a surface to bite onto. Questionable as to which method adheres the best when each is properly applied. Paint is probably easier to color match.
All my tools had a "plastidip" applied to them and not a powder coating. Apparently yours are different.
Keep it as original as YOU want it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mille1sj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 8:05pm


[/QUOTE]

That is the color of mine, with some additional gunk on it.

Is your PCM intake manifold the same color? My intake is the lighter blue, my wife couldn’t remember if her father ever replaced it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mille1sj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Why do I have this wild urge to go listen to some oldies like "Fly like an Eagle"   "Abracadabra" and   "Take the money and run" ?


It wouldn’t be a normal day if I didn’t get at least one Steve Miller comment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mille1sj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Steve,
I feel you have the wrong idea about powder coating. The "baking" is not to adhere the coating but to melt it. It's basically a plastic powder sprayed onto a warm surface and then when it goes back into the oven the powder melts together. Adhesion has been improved through the years but it's still not as good as wet paint where there's a chemical bonding. Have you ever had the plastic coating on plier handles slip off? I always use that as an analogy.


All of the powder coating that I have had done had to be sand blasted first to give it a surface to bite onto. Questionable as to which method adheres the best when each is properly applied. Paint is probably easier to color match.
All my tools had a "plastidip" applied to them and not a powder coating. Apparently yours are different.


I get what you are saying Pete, powder coat could create more of a shell than a chemical bond from primer and paint. Not a marine application but manufacturing axles we always acid wash then prime and paint. Seems to hold up to high heat and weather conditions. If I got the powder route I will definitely sand blast first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 8:35pm
Over in the UK on things like motorcycle parts, they sandblast,zinc plate then power coat. That seems like a better way,but it was not cheap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Mille1sj Mille1sj wrote:

I am not opposed to wet paint and primer. I assumed powder would hold up better being baked on. If that’s not the case, wet paint would be fine.

Steve,
I feel you have the wrong idea about powder coating. The "baking" is not to adhere the coating but to melt it. It's basically a plastic powder sprayed onto a warm surface and then when it goes back into the oven the powder melts together. Adhesion has been improved through the years but it's still not as good as wet paint where there's a chemical bonding. Have you ever had the plastic coating on plier handles slip off? I always use that as an analogy.


Pete, with all due respect—powder coating is vastly superior to wet sprayed coatings and is the standard bearer for durability and chip resistance and especially corrosion performance. I’ve been in metal finishing 1/2 of my 35 working years and powder coating and e-coatings (electrophoretic) as well as autodeposited coatongs have surpassed wet coatings. I think you may be operating on old information. From my perspective, wet spray is the easiest and most affordable way to get this job done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2018 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Mille1sj Mille1sj wrote:

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Why do I have this wild urge to go listen to some oldies like "Fly like an Eagle"   "Abracadabra" and   "Take the money and run" ?


It wouldn’t be a normal day if I didn’t get at least one Steve Miller comment.


Glad to make it a normal day

The whole engine was the same shade of blue, with those bright green exhaust manifolds
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote va-river-tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2018 at 9:45am
For what it's worth, I don't have any reason to believe my barn find 77 Tique with the PCM 302 not to be original and I found that the engine was 2 shades of ford blue with the green manifolds. For instance the block was Ford Blue while the oil pan was a rubberized old ford blue with white stamped lettering on the bottom. The carb linkage and starter solenoid plate were Ford Blue. My thoughts were when the engine was marinized some of those components were painted Old Ford Blue, at least on my engine.

When I rebuilt the engine I chose to paint the complete engine old ford blue (Dupli-Color DE1621). With the manifolds I originally went with Dupli-Color Grabber Green DE1641 but I found that Rust-Oleum Grabber Green to be more of a match to the original manifolds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Faceplant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2018 at 10:32pm
Does anybody have a pic of the green manifolds ? Just curious .
I used to hang ten - now I hang six .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2018 at 7:35am
Originally posted by Faceplant Faceplant wrote:

Does anybody have a pic of the green manifolds ? Just curious .


If you were to check back later today, I bet you'll see some green manifolds
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mille1sj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2018 at 8:27am
That is what my original manifolds looked like, with a few rusted holes and water leaking out of them.
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