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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2018 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by ArtCozier ArtCozier wrote:

Whale is a brand name for an old-fashioned plunger type pump that has been manufactured for many, many years. The originals were a brass cylinder with the plunger and valves inside. It looks a lot like an old-fashioned bicycle pump, and because of its simplicity it's virtually failure-proof. You don't see them much anymore. Pete and I have fun needling each other occasionally. Welcome to the website!


Did some research via 1959 boat catalogue that came with my 56-Atom. Don't think they will still have them in stock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2018 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by ArtCozier ArtCozier wrote:

tap the coupler a bit in each direction, parallel to the shaft.    

John,
If the coupling half can be moved by tapping, then the fit is bad. The copling bore to the prop shaft is a interference fit. The coupling needs to be ether pressed on/off or heated.


Coupling half moved with tapping. Actually, it fell right off with pre-treat with wd40 and a pressed it right off. I then was able to slide it back on by hand with minimal taps to position that allows set screw (only 1) to engage fully.
Now shaft is recessed into coupling and mates up with the output shaft.


ArtCozier-sound good?
SNobsessed -I will check the shaft next
8122pbrainard-assume you suggest I go coupler or shaft shopping or both
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2018 at 5:06am
Originally posted by 56-Atom 56-Atom wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


John,
If the coupling half can be moved by tapping, then the fit is bad. The copling bore to the prop shaft is a interference fit. The coupling needs to be ether pressed on/off or heated.

8122pbrainard-assume you suggest I go coupler or shaft shopping or both

John,
If the shaft is straight (max runout .003") then I would replace the coupling. They will bore it per the shaft OD. General Propeller would be my choice. Check the shaft.

Chances are high that the boat was run with a misaligned shaft that fretted the fit between the coupling and shaft.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2018 at 8:13pm
This is the reply I received from Paul at General Propeller. Any advice on how I should reply regarding transmission make and model?

I am concerned about the coupling. It is not one we stock and I am not sure if it’s available.

Do you know the Make and model of the transmission?

We can compensate for the thread body length.

Regards,

Paul Fox

PaulF@gpcprop.com                          General Propeller Company, Inc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2018 at 8:34pm
Post up a picture of your trans
69 Mustang HM SS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2018 at 8:35pm
In one of your early posts I recall seeing the very tail end of the transmission just ahead of the coupler, and I thought at the time that it is probably an early Warner Gear, probably an AS1-70C. If you can post a photo of it, I can probably tell you for sure what it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2018 at 8:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2018 at 8:49pm
Does the tag say Paragon at the top? If so, that's what it is; a Model 70. When I enlarge the photo I can't read it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2018 at 8:56pm

Got it now, it says "Graymarine" That of course is the engine brand. I don't know for sure whether they built transmissions. The squarish top cover suggests Paragon to me. Could be that it was a Paragon built and they had an agreement with Gray to rebrand it. A close-up of that tag would help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2018 at 9:04pm
Nothing says Paragon. Number on tag is #G19238. Number stamped on end of trans is OXK 22 (i think). Book says max horsepower at rpm 70/3400.

Found information in owners manual about Paragon Gear and also has information on Capital Gear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2018 at 9:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2018 at 9:39pm
Interesting that the cable for what is probably a mechanical tachometer comes off of the transmission. I've never seen that arrangement before.
The inside sure does look like a Paragon. Does anything say how to adjust the clutches? A Paragon has a bolt with a 5/8" head that you take out and that allows you to tighten up the clutch pack to compensate for wear. The lubrication comes from the engine oil, there is an opening from the transmission sump into the engine oil pan. Is there any information at all about the transmission on the tag on the cover plate?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2018 at 10:00pm
Yes, the cable runs to dash tac. The owners manual speaks of a Forward Adjustment Lockscrew. Lubrications does come from engine oil. Nothing on the tag on cover plate regarding transmission.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2018 at 4:56am
John,
I'm pretty sure the coupling is a Buck Algonquin 3 bolt commonly used on Universals Atomic 4 engine. Get back to General with the OD and the OD of the pilot.

3 bolt couplings from General Propeller

Those are Paragon guts in a Gray casing. If the trans "knuckles" over when you push the shift lever forward, don't mess with the adjustment. If it doesn't, then tighten the pack ONE NOTCH ONLY.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2018 at 8:36am
Great information, Pete. I agree, it must be a Paragon built for Gray. My experience with Paragon mechanical transmissions is that they are practically indestructible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2018 at 8:53am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

John,
I'm pretty sure the coupling is a Buck Algonquin 3 bolt commonly used on Universals Atomic 4 engine. Get back to General with the OD and the OD of the pilot.

3 bolt couplings from General Propeller

Those are Paragon guts in a Gray casing. If the trans "knuckles" over when you push the shift lever forward, don't mess with the adjustment. If it doesn't, then tighten the pack ONE NOTCH ONLY.


Thanks Pete, Does this mean I have a solid coupling and not a taper. This may answer why I can slip it on by hand. ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2018 at 11:30am
Your coupling is definitely NOT a tapered fit. As Pete said, the shaft is entirely too loose in the coupler, A tapered coupling and shaft would be a good update to have if you have to replace them. General Prop can probably make it for you. They offer a 3/4" bore straight coupler, so it could be made into a taper in their machine shop if your shaft is 1 inch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2018 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by 56-Atom 56-Atom wrote:


Thanks Pete, Does this mean I have a solid coupling and not a taper. This may answer why I can slip it on by hand. ?

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


John,
If the coupling half can be moved by tapping, then the fit is bad. The coupling bore to the prop shaft is a interference fit. The coupling needs to be ether pressed on/off or heated.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2018 at 4:09pm
Did some hull underside inspection today. Noticed oily water seeping. The boat has not been run in years, I did set the engine and got it started, floated boat a couple of times but did not notice any oil leaks. Is this common or do I have an oil reservoir in my hidden bildge space? Recommendations?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2018 at 4:23pm
John,
From the color of the oil, it sure looks pretty fresh. Take another look at the engine. If it isn't obvious where the oil is coming from, place some cardboard under it and give it a couple days and then look again for areas that show the oil.

Congrats on getting the engine started. Any problems?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2018 at 4:53pm
Pete, thanks for the quick reply!    I had pulled the engine after winterizing, as part of my shaft alignment project. I took a quick look under the engine and sure enough I had drips accumulated under engine block. Perhaps it did the same while in boat this past year.

Problems getting engine started? I wish I could post a video of it finally firing up! Had to have starter rebuilt and after figuring the throttle body, engine idle, and choke out she fired up after a hour of tinkering around. I floated it and water pump pulled great etc...Then I realized I had plug wires wrong and only running on 1 cyl. Reordered and fired up all four cyl with great amazement from me and my 16 year old what all 70 horses sound and feel like.! Just need to check cables and get the 6volt to turn it over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2018 at 6:35pm
John,
There isn't an engine that doesn't leak some oil at one time or another. The older the era of the engine, the worse they leak. I have a thought and that's when you put the boat in the water, the aft end of it and the engine were low which would cause the oil level to go high aft. When you had the inspection plate off the trans, what was the condition of the gasket? When you found the oil on the engine, was it aft?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2018 at 7:48pm
The boat ramp was a pretty steep one and the gasket is old and brittle, on my list to replace. That was most likely it. When I checked the engine recently it was dead center on engine case that is now sitting level on a cart. I just may have not tightened the oil plug tight after we did the oil change when out of the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2018 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by 56-Atom 56-Atom wrote:

I just may have not tightened the oil plug tight after we did the oil change when out of the boat.

John,
When you did the oil change, did you suck the oil with a vacuum extractor? It's easier than draining with the drain plug. Also, it's typical to open up the trans cover and suck it as well. You can get almost an additional pint out of it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2018 at 8:06pm
John,
What oil did you use? It's VERY important that you use an oil with high ZDDP content. Modern oils do not have it anymore. I use Valvolene VR1 20-50 but there are others with the ZDDP levels your flat tappet engine needs. If you didn't use an oil with ZDDP, do NOT run the engine.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2018 at 8:07pm
Pete, since I had the motor out on the cart I just drained it out of the lower drain plug and then rocked it back and forth/side to side getting the last of the old oil out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2018 at 8:14pm
This is a link to the "first run" Not sure if it will be viewable but thought I would give it a try.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PaSyZtkbR_iwwLNm7rU9cA4y7GUzVP09/view?usp=sharing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 56-Atom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2018 at 8:41pm
Mobile1 30. I’ll change it out before starting in the spring. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-18-2018 at 3:58am
Originally posted by 56-Atom 56-Atom wrote:

Mobile1 30.

John,
I went searching for ZDDP levels in Mobile1 30 weight and can't find Mobile1 made in any straight weight's. Are you sure it's straight 30? Maybe I didn't search enough? Anyway, you are probably going by recommended oil that's in a manual or on a name plate. Keep in mind that info is very dated back in the days when multi viscosity oils weren't invented yet. The benefits of multi viscosity oils have been proven and they will benefit old engines too.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArtCozier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-18-2018 at 8:26am
I add ZDDP additive whenever I use conventional motor oil in a flat-tappet engine. I'm told that Shell Rotella oil marked "Diesel and Marine" has adequate zinc to protect older cams and lifters. I have not looked it up.
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