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Jonny Quest View Drop Down
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    Posted: January-25-2019 at 7:02pm
Does anybody know the Fel-Pro part number of the intake manifold gasket as "OEM" for the 351W High Output PCM engine?

The gaskets shown on skidim.com look like the correct ones, but I can't' figure out a part number from their website. The Fel-Pro website "Find-My-Part" shows NO gaskets for a SBF 351W PCM marine conversion engine.

Thanks. JQ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2019 at 7:10pm
Nothing marine specific about intake gaskets... check summit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2019 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Nothing marine specific about intake gaskets... check summit.


Tim: Summit shows several variations -- including a "marine" set. However, the marine set is a "universal" type and is a cut-to-fit. My preference is for a gasket that is a direct fit and has the choke block-off plate already in place.

Based on the photo on Summit's website, the part number SFL1262R5 looks like the correct one. (kinda scary to go off the photo...)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2019 at 9:57pm
Does the 351W High Output have a Aluminum or Cast Iron intake, it makes a difference.

If it is Aluminum you need a gasket designed to live with cast iron heads and an aluminum intake.   Aluminum and Cast iron expand and contract at different rates and the gasket needs to allow slip to seal in this combination.   If you use the wrong gasket it will fail very early.
The Fel Pro information can be looked up at FMEcat.com if you want to take time to read the options.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2019 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

Does the 351W High Output have a Aluminum or Cast Iron intake, it makes a difference.

If it is Aluminum you need a gasket designed to live with cast iron heads and an aluminum intake.   Aluminum and Cast iron expand and contract at different rates and the gasket needs to allow slip to seal in this combination.   If you use the wrong gasket it will fail very early.
The Fel Pro information can be looked up at FMEcat.com if you want to take time to read the options.


He's swapped to a Performer RPM unless he changed his mind recently.

JQ, the FelPro manifold gaskets you listed will work just fine. You could also use Edelbrock part number 7219. I figure they probably have a good set of gaskets for their manifold

I guess you want to block off the heat passages and either of these will cover those holes and keep Mr M happy

By the way, the PCM part number is RM0186 if you care
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2019 at 1:14am
KENO: Thanks for the PCM number. And, yes, this is for the Edelbrock RPM Performer. There is s small vacuum leak that appears to be coming from the Permatex Ultra Black silicone that I used on the engine block end surfaces. So, I've got to pull the new intake off and re-do the gaskets. I used the Edelbrock 7220 gaskets on the original install, but I wasn't impressed with the quality of the gasket set as a whole, nor the fitment of choke block off plate. That's why I thought I would go back to the original Fel-Pro.

McD: I hadn't considered the cast iron block and aluminum intake issue.

Thanks, Gents, for the responses.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2019 at 8:45am
JQF

If you have a leak at the end surfaces, it won't have any effect on engine vacuum, since there's no vacuum in that area of the engine.

You'll have a path for an oil leak but nothing else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2019 at 8:55am
By the way the link below has a link to the PCM illustrated parts manual up to the 2000 model year.

it's fairly handy at times

link
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2019 at 12:41pm
Thanks KENO for the manual link. I downloaded and saved it to file.

As usual, you are correct....there is a small vacuum leak, but now that I think about it, it can't be coming from UNDER the intake manifold as there is no vacuum there -- as you correctly pointed out. I used the unlit propane torch method and the RPMs got a bit higher at one end of the manifold. I need to do a bit more investigation...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2019 at 3:58pm
Fel-Pro offers a 1262-S3 Intake Manifold Gasket set.   Says it is for GT-40 heads or N Heads, also fits TFS heads. Says, Added Durability for Street or Marine Use.
.065 thick and has a Steel Core laminate with Print o Seal and Coatings to help seal.

FYI: Printoseal is a bead placed around the water ports, this is not a sealer but is a Pressure point to increase pressure on these points when the manifold is torqued to help avoid leaks.

Fel-Pro has a million square foot manufacturing plant in Skokie IL, outside Chicago. They produce 300,000 gaskets per day.   They understand manufacturing and testing to meet OEM specs. I toured the plant two years ago, when you see this in person you walk away knowing these guys are experts at what they do. They had engineering and dyno labs in house along with a full engine assembly room to build and test what they produce.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2019 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

I used the Edelbrock 7220 gaskets on the original install

JQ


Are you sure you used the 7220 Edelbrock gaskets?

The reason I'm asking is because the water port shape is different than the port on your heads and you'd have to trim them or they would be hanging out into your 2 front water passages.. The 2 rear ones don't matter since the manifold is blank in the back (no ports in the back)

Here's a picture of 7219 gaskets, followed by a picture of 7220 gaskets








The 7220 are for early heads and 16 bolt manifolds. 7219 for the later 12 bolt heads and manifolds

FelPro and everybody else has the same variations for the different heads.

Just curious
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2019 at 9:29pm
KENO: You are omniscient as usual. Yes, I did use the 7220 gaskets -- and yes, I did have to trim them to match the water port opening. (The Fel-Pro marine universal gaskets also have instructions for trim-to-fit)

Based on your previous post, I just ordered a set of the 7219 gaskets. I will still have to R&R the manifold as the flaw I spotted in the Ultra Black RV silicone will cause me a problem down the road. I must have bumped the silicone bead while installing the manifold, causing the bead to be partially removed/deformed. Once I re-install everything, I'll chase the small vacuum leak.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-27-2019 at 8:20pm
I can't even spell omnis.............whatever

And on top of that I think I gave you some bum dope. The 7219 gaskets are for the Victor Jr manifold with some bigger intake ports and bigger water ports too.

They might work but Edelbrock recommends the 7220 like you previously used. I'd check closely especially around the water ports.

I haven't used the FelPro 1262s3 that Mr M dug up the number for but ihey seem to cover all the bases from what I can see..

Last Edelbrock that I put on was a regular Performer and I used FelPro 90361 gaskets with no issues of any kind. They have the openings for manifold heat and I used them like that with no block off of the passage. They're a standard replacement style and work with the aluminum heads. I'm pretty sure the Performer and Performer RPM ports are the same size.

I seem to think all the Performers and Performer RPM's have the funny L shaped water port like the early Ford heads too.

By the way, if those 7219 gaskets won't work, I'll buy them from ya, got a friend with a land based vehicle that uses those gaskets   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-27-2019 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:



I seem to think all the Performers and Performer RPM's have the funny L shaped water port like the early Ford heads too.

   


I am with you up to here - pretty sure I have yet to come across a sbf performer/rpm/victor jr that had the L shaped water ports - ive been trimming those gaskets for 20 years...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-27-2019 at 9:32pm
I'll see what the fitment looks like with Edelbrock 7219 between manifold and head. I can always go with the Fel-Pro 1262s3 as a back-up.

Thanks again, Gents, for your insight.

JQ

By the way Joe...the hole-shot video in your signature link is pretty darn impressive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-27-2019 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:



I seem to think all the Performers and Performer RPM's have the funny L shaped water port like the early Ford heads too.

   


I am with you up to here - pretty sure I have yet to come across a sbf performer/rpm/victor jr that had the L shaped water ports - ive been trimming those gaskets for 20 years...


I was "with me" too, until I looked at one in the garage today, here's a picture of the port at the front I laid a FelPro 90361 gasket on the manifold to show how it fits. This is a 2181 Performer.

You can see the gasket and the L shaped port pretty clearly



I figured this was an old one and they changed them over the years but then every picture I could find from Edelbrock, Summit, Jeg's etc has the same shape to the port.

The link is from Edelbrock for a Performer RPM (same port shape)



link

second link for a Performer

link

third link for a Victor Jr

link

Show me something to say that we're both right about the ports on the Performer and Performer RPM not having that L shape Joe. You must have one hanging around

I have a couple year old one on a boat that I don't feel like tearing into just to get a look at it    

JQ can get a picture when he takes his brand new one off I suppose.

Ford cast iron manifolds got rid of the L shape a long time ago like in the early 70's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-27-2019 at 10:14pm
Joe

I know we've both screwed around with a 302 at least a few times

A Performer 2121 for the 302 has the rectangular water ports with no L shape

Here's a link to the 2121 Performer showing the port.

Mystery solved? ...............maybe, maybe not

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-28-2019 at 10:52am
Very interesting, I have/had about all the flavors between the 289/302 and 351w widths but not all the flavors of each - The 302/289 performer, 302/289 performer rpm, 351w performer rpm airgap, and 351w victor junior jr are all straight up rectangles, as is the 351w weiand stealth,

Looks like at least the 351w performer and 351w performer rpm are indeed L shaped - I can't think of a good reason why - at least not on a Monday morning.., Be interesting to know if the ones that are now rectangles were previously L or vise versa - or even wackier if there are different molds in use currently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2019 at 1:22am
KENO / Joe:

The 7219 gaskets showed up today. I tested the fitment against the old cast-iron intake that I removed at the start of the Edelbrock aluminum manifold project. I think that these "Victor Jr." gaskets will work OK. Yes, the openings are a smidge bigger -- but not enough to give me too much concern.

Thanks,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2019 at 8:15am
Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

KENO / Joe:

The 7219 gaskets showed up today. I tested the fitment against the old cast-iron intake that I removed at the start of the Edelbrock aluminum manifold project. I think that these "Victor Jr." gaskets will work OK. Yes, the openings are a smidge bigger -- but not enough to give me too much concern.

Thanks,

JQ


Good to know, now don't forget to get a picture of the Edelbrock intake manifold water ports
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2019 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by Jonny Quest Jonny Quest wrote:

KENO / Joe:

The 7219 gaskets showed up today. I tested the fitment against the old cast-iron intake that I removed at the start of the Edelbrock aluminum manifold project. I think that these "Victor Jr." gaskets will work OK. Yes, the openings are a smidge bigger -- but not enough to give me too much concern.

Thanks,

JQ


Good to know, now don't forget to get a picture of the Edelbrock intake manifold water ports


I'll post a pix when I R&R. I do know that the water ports are the funky "L" shape.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mille1sj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2019 at 12:04am
Has anyone tried the 2121 performer or the 7121 performer rpm on a Ski Tique with a Ford 302? I was leaning toward the rpm but I wasn’t sure if it would fit under the doghouse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2019 at 9:02am
Performer rpm will fit if you ditch the 1” carb spacer.

The performer should fit without removing the spacer.

Either option may require a short (2”) flame arrestor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mille1sj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2019 at 11:00pm
Thanks, I did pickup a larger diameter 2” flame arrestor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2019 at 7:55pm
Today was R&R day (remove-and-replace) for the Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold. Turns out that I made a good call to pull the intake and fix the problem I had with the RTV silicone on the "China walls" where the block meets the intake.

After pulling the intake, I compared the Edelbrock 7219 gaskets with the Fel-Pro 1262S-3 gasket set. Overall, the fitment of the Edelbrock gasket was poor against the GT40 heads. I ended up using the Fel-Pro 1262S-3 gaskets. Perfect fit. I'm very happy with how the work turned out.

Also, the work was quite fortuitous. It turns out that there was some mall amount of water leakage into the block from the previous installation via the intake gasket. Good thing I went through the exercise.

Note: The Fel-Pro 1262S-3 gaskets have a water opening that is rectangular and not in the funky "L" shape as found on the Edelbrock manifold..



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