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1990 Ski Nautique Stringer Repair

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solson324 View Drop Down
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    Posted: February-25-2019 at 11:55am
Hi everybody, I bought my boat knowing the floor was soft and that I would likely have to do a full stringer repair. I have the seats/floor/enginer/majority of the foam out, and I am about to place my US Composites order. I have attached a picture of my order, and would like feedback on anything you see I am missing or that I will need more of. I'd rather have a little extra left at the end than face delays waiting for material.

Second, what are peoples thoughts on using Coosa board for the stringers? The one big appeal I see (besides being rot resistant) is the ability to screw into it without CPES'ing everything.

Link to Diary: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=9795&sort=&pagenum=1

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2019 at 1:00pm
First glance, more epoxy, gloves and brushes.
1999 Sport Nautique w GT40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2019 at 1:10pm
Here's a link to most everything on CCF about Coosa

Maybe you've read all the threads in the link...................then again maybe not

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2019 at 1:28pm
Sam,
Read those links that Ken provided. Lots of great information in them.

This statement is concerning:
Originally posted by solson324 solson324 wrote:


Second, what are peoples thoughts on using Coosa board for the stringers? The one big appeal I see is the ability to screw into it without CPES'ing everything.

Coosa does not do a great job of holding screws so, avoid screws and just epoxy bond. The sole (floor) if you go non foam is a good example. Screws are just a point of stress anyway. Seat bases will need some wood blocking for screws. For bolting the engine cradle, some have used wood blocking and some have through bolted.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solson324 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2019 at 1:45pm
Thanks for the links above, I have read a few of them and I will look at the rest tonight.

Pete,

The statement was poorly worded. I meant all of the holes for breather tubes/wires/thru bolts etc. A couple questions on your last part.

1: For the seat bases, would I use adhesive to mount a wood block to the Coosa floor, then screw directly into that?

2: For the engine mounts, I can thru bolt on the sides of the primary stringer, and just use epoxy instead of the bolts on the top?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2019 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Sam,
Read those links that Ken provided. Lots of great information in them.

This statement is concerning:
Originally posted by solson324 solson324 wrote:


Second, what are peoples thoughts on using Coosa board for the stringers? The one big appeal I see is the ability to screw into it without CPES'ing everything.

Coosa does not do a great job of holding screws so, avoid screws and just epoxy bond. The sole (floor) if you go non foam is a good example. Screws are just a point of stress anyway. Seat bases will need some wood blocking for screws. For bolting the engine cradle, some have used wood blocking and some have through bolted.


While coosa alone does not do a great job holding screws compared to wood a floor or stringer system built using coosa can hold screws very well.   There is no need for any sort of wood blocking for seat bases and I certainly wouldn't recommend any for mounting the engine cradle either.

I have some of the hardest working seats in the business and no wood blocks anywhere to be found.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2019 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:


While coosa alone does not do a great job holding screws compared to wood a floor or stringer system built using coosa can hold screws very well.   There is no need for any sort of wood blocking for seat bases and I certainly wouldn't recommend any for mounting the engine cradle either.   

Joe,
Didn't you double up the Coosa under the seats? How about the engine cradle. Through bolted?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2019 at 2:52pm
I’d want to be through bolting the cradle (not lagging). Access to those nuts would be a configuration change relative to the way CC built the boat. No need to fasten down imho (adhesive), horizontal fasteners are enough.

No need to double up in the region of the seats, but extra glass layers on the backside of the floor panels in that area will improve screw retention.

I don’t see any cloth tape on the list and epoxy is probably about 1/3 of what you need... keep reading the threads and taking notes. You’ll want to consider replacing the strength removed by lack of foam if you’re going that direction (which is what I would do).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2019 at 3:15pm
Used 7.5 gal on a 16 ft using Doug fir. For strength most here recommended using some biax or mat in addition to some weave. We used over 5 qt of cabosil. I’d get at least 10.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2019 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Joe,
Didn't you double up the Coosa under the seats? How about the engine cradle. Through bolted?


Near as I can remember I have a couple layers of 10oz cloth on the top and bottom of ¾ coosa bluewater 26 under the seats, along with a layer of Epoxy Mat on the top. You can break the head off a stainless steel screw if you get too crazy tightening into it. I only put half the screws back in to hold down the drivers seat cause I stripped the phillips head out of the other ones trying to get them in – I bought replacements but haven’t ever put them in, that seat aint going anywhere.

I didn't do anything other than Lag Screws in the stock locations, I assumed I would end up having to put something poor some thickened epoxy in the holes at some point but they are still there - engine has been in and out a bunch of times but no need to pull out the cradle so the bolts are still there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2019 at 5:09pm
Joe and Tim,
Thanks for suppling the details.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solson324 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2019 at 5:33pm
Thanks for all the input guys, I've been travelling the past (2) months for work but I am ready to get back into it this weekend. I have attached the bullet points of my plan ahead for your input/corrections. Questions in Blue

- 2" Douglas fir for both primary and secondary stringers
Any reason why 2" would be a mistake over 1"?
- Will cut strips of 1/4" insulation and bed stringer in "peanut butter"
--> Add 1/2" fillet with peanut butter mixture to all stringers
- 4 to 5 lateral bulkheads between primary/secondary stringers and secondary/port/starboard sides
--> bulkheads will have a corner cut out for water drainage
Is this an awful idea? I hate the idea of water sitting for months/years
- Layup schedule
--> (2) coats homebrew CPES (10:1 Epoxy Resin and Acetone)
--> 2", 4" cloth (8.7oz E-Glass) Do I need an 8" layer as well?
--> DMB 1208 Biax for sides and capping
- Garage floor epoxy for bilge coat
- 1/2" Plywood for floor 1/2" or 5/8"?
How to secure plywood to stringers? Just thickened epoxy and weight down floor?
--> Use 4" and 8" cloth for floor seams and side hull connections
- Try to color match new carpet for the floor

I have the engine/foam/airbox/battery box/secondary stringers out. A couple more hours of grinding and I will be ready to go back in with the secondary's.

Thanks in advance,
Sam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solson324 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 1:49pm
Quick update and a few photos (everybody likes progress pictures).

This past weekend I did most of the grinding, I'd say about 80%. People said this stuff was nasty and time consuming, and they were right. I used the Diablo 40 grit flapper wheels with a 4" grinder and that worked really well. Between Friday and Saturday I would say roughly 10 hours of grinding, 3 flapper discs, and 2 Tyvek suits.


Grinding progress about mid-day Saturday.



I dropped plastic sheeting around the boat and have the exhaust fan (behind boat) turned on with a window open to create a nice draft across. There is still a bit of fiberglass dust that gets out, but not much. I know, too much *************** in the shop. Sleds are getting put away for the summer shortly.





All the wood from the stringers was shot, it came out in pieces or just pulp in some spots. I will have to scribe the secondary stringers, but I was able to salvage the interior fiberglass from primaries. I was able to "stitch" these pieces together with 2x4's and will use them as a template for my new stringers.

Next up is to get the lumber for the stringers (Kiln Dried Doug Fir) and begin shaping them next weekend. Nobody responded to my previous post, so I will proceed with 2x for the secondary stringers as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 3:32pm
We did our Tique secondaries out of 1". Think that was original. That said, I see no reason why 2" would have been a negative to our build. Would add a little weight but shouldn't be an issue for you. Cost may be a bit more too. Good luck. Glad to hear you are almost done grinding...that will be a nice feeling, trust me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 3:48pm
Further:

- Will cut strips of 1/4" insulation
(don't know what insulation is)
and bed stringer in "peanut butter"
(we bedded direct to hull with "peanut butter")

--> bulkheads will have a corner cut out for water drainage
Is this an awful idea? I hate the idea of water sitting for months/years
(we did this as well in bulkheads and stringers in certain places to allow water to flow to drain)

- 1/2" Plywood for floor 1/2" or 5/8"?
(either will prob work depending on how you glass floor down...we used 5/8 and have been happy and would probably do that again. We also bedded tabs on the hull wall to support the plywood next to the hull.)
How to secure plywood to stringers? Just thickened epoxy and weight down floor?
(that is what we did)
--> Use 4" and 8" cloth for floor seams and side hull connections
(we glassed floor to hull using a 4-8in strip of scrap along length of hull/floor seam. Then we glassed the top of the floor.   Some say floor shouldn't be attached to hull sides and some say it should. We attached it. Our thread is New to me 1978 Tique.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by solson324 solson324 wrote:

homebrew CPES (10:1 Epoxy Resin and Acetone)


I have been using 4:1 Epoxy resin / Xylol with good results. FWIW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-16-2019 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by samudj01 samudj01 wrote:


Will cut strips of 1/4" insulation
(don't know what insulation is)
and bed stringer in "peanut butter"
(we bedded direct to hull with "peanut butter")

A concern of mine as well. Scribe the stringers as close to the hull as possible then, bed them in thickened epoxy. I too am curious about the "insulation".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solson324 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2019 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by samudj01 samudj01 wrote:

Further:

- Will cut strips of 1/4" insulation
(don't know what insulation is)
and bed stringer in "peanut butter"
(we bedded direct to hull with "peanut butter")



I didn't explain the insulation all that well. I was debating on using 1/4" thick foam board and gluing it to the footprint of the stringer. This is supposed to help alleviate any pressure points caused by the wooden stringer in direct contact with the hull. The foam would help avoid squeezing all the peanut butter out and assure a consistent bond with the hull. After looking into it more, I am just going to make my peanut butter thick enough to avoid squeeze out. Picture below is a screen snip of the Frisco Boater Sea-Ray series on YouTube.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solson324 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2019 at 1:11pm
Another update: Cleaned up a lot of the fiberglass/foam on the transom and cut my primary stringers this past weekend. Went with 2"x10"x16' kiln dried Douglas Fir. I tried to use my salvaged stringer outline I posted earlier, but it wasn't working all that well. I ended up going with the string line method, photo below. You can just barely see the black line ran port->starboard and bow->stern along the stringer path.



This worked very well and left me with the handheld planar to bevel the bottom edge to match the contour of the hull. Photo below shows both primaries about 3/4 of the way through the shaping. I cut a 2x to match the width of the engine cradle (26-7/16") to help hold them both in place.



My US Composites order should be coming in the end of this week, but I likely won't be able to work on the boat again until the 18th. I can post photos of my final order if anybody wants it.

My question is, after I bed and glass in the primary stringers, would the boat be safe to trailer (75 miles) to my place in the cities? It's warming up quite a bit and I would like to work on the boat in my driveway throughout the week. Let me know if I should be alright or if that would be too much stress put on the hull.

Thanks,
Sam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2019 at 2:04pm
We trailered the hull with no stringers. I am sure some will say we were crazy but it seemed to be fine. We did a 16’ boat if that matters. Before putting the stringers in we blocked the keel and transom for when we were in there working.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2019 at 3:33pm
16’ ski Tique and 19.5” SN is a totally different ballgame. Based on the amount of hull flex I have experienced (stringer-less) on the larger boats, I would absolutely not trailer it without more support. Your call though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solson324 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2019 at 2:30pm
This past month or so has been difficult to get much done between travelling for work every week and spending time with the Mrs. when I am home. I was able to put 2 coats of CPES on all the stringers with an additional 2-3 coats on all end grains. My brother was able to help me bed the two primary stringers and add the fillets the following weekend,



Photos above show the boat how it sits now, with the 2" and 4" tapes applied to the outside of both stringers. Next step will be to remove the bracing and apply the 2" and 4" tapes to the inside of the stringers. I will then snap a line and cut the stringers to height and use a router with a round over bit on the top. A few coats of CPES and then apply the 8" tapes and the up-and-over layer of 1708. Wash, rinse, and repeat with the secondary stringers.

Something I will do differently while bedding the secondary stringers is just be a lot neater. I was too worried about making sure the peanut butter filled all the voids under the stringers that there were a lot of bumps and sharp pieces of chopped strand sticking out that were a pain to sand off and glass over.


I also did a test batch the week before bedding on scrap stringer material and I am amazed at how strong this stuff dries. My brother and I (both ~215#) jumped on the edge off the piece shown above and it was still solid as a rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solson324 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2020 at 2:33pm
Wow, I didn't realize it has been almost 8 months since my last update. With travelling for work I only made it up to the cabin (where the boat is) a handful of times since then and I chose to spend most of that time with my family instead of in the shop. I was able to get all the stringers set, with three of them glassed in.

I went with 2", 4", 8" tape on each side, followed by a layer of 1708 over the top. If at all possible I recommend doing all of the glassing in one go. On the primaries I did the 2" and 4" tapes, then cut the tops, then the 8" and 1708. On the secondary I did it all at once and it went much quicker and turned out better.

I plan on glassing in the last string this Friday. Then getting started on the cutting out the lateral bulkhead and getting a few coats of CPES on them.

Question on the lateral bulkheads, How close to the hull contour should I go with the outside supports? I would like it to run to the outside of the hull for additional floor bracing but I don't want to put additional stress on the raised chine, circled in red below.

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