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    Posted: April-18-2019 at 12:12am
OK I got the Alternator that was recommended and now have another problem. See pic for the wiring diagram for a 3 wire and this is a 1 wire.
How do I hook it up.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2019 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by jterr jterr wrote:

OK I got the Alternator that was recommended and now have another problem. See pic for the wiring diagram for a 3 wire and this is a 1 wire.
How do I hook it up.......


I seem to remember you having a regular old rat's nest of wiring and basically having to start over unless you went and bought a harness somewhere.

The only wire you care about is the big 10 gauge orange one from the output terminal

There are better easier to follow wiring diagrams than that such as this TRB diagram. It's for a boat with a voltmeter in the dash.

The orange wire from the alternator to the main breaker is what you use and any other wires aren't needed and can be removed/taped off. In the TRB diagram the exciter wire isn't used with the one wire Delco style alternator

A small ground wire from the case of the alternator to the block is recommended in most of the one wire literature even though it grounds through the case to the metal bracket that's hooked to the metal block.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2019 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by jterr jterr wrote:

OK I got the Alternator that was recommended and now have another problem. See pic for the wiring diagram for a 3 wire and this is a 1 wire.
How do I hook it up.......


I seem to remember you having a regular old rat's nest of wiring and basically having to start over unless you went and bought a harness somewhere.

The only wire you care about is the big 10 gauge orange one from the output terminal

There are better easier to follow wiring diagrams than that such as this TRB diagram. It's for a boat with a voltmeter in the dash.

The orange wire from the alternator to the main breaker is what you use and any other wires aren't needed and can be removed/taped off. In the TRB diagram the exciter wire isn't used with the one wire Delco style alternator

A small ground wire from the case of the alternator to the block is recommended in most of the one wire literature even though it grounds through the case to the metal bracket that's hooked to the metal block.



Thanks Ken knew you could help me out..
JT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2019 at 8:20pm
Another question. What is the size of that engine breaker, I can't read it? I checked the one in my 79 and it is a 40, but these look like it could be a 50 or 60?????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2019 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by jterr jterr wrote:

Another question. What is the size of that engine breaker, I can't read it? I checked the one in my 79 and it is a 40, but these look like it could be a 50 or 60?????

John,
Breaker size is determined by the alternator output and then the proper wire size to handle that output.
Statement by Ken:
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:


I seem to remember you having a regular old rat's nest of wiring and basically having to start over unless you went and bought a harness somewhere.

So, what are your plans for the wiring?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2019 at 9:28pm
Well I have replaced the alternator, so should the breaker be based on that? Not sure about a complete new harness but maybe the one on the engine side of the connector.

Just checked it is a 105 amp alternator
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2019 at 9:48pm
Breaker protects the wiring, should not be based on alt output.

Thought process should be alt output——> wire size —> breaker size

Skipping steps is unwise and unsafe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2019 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Breaker protects the wiring, should not be based on alt output.

Thought process should be alt output——> wire size —> breaker size

Skipping steps is unwise and unsafe.


C'mon I 'm lost with this stuff-help me out here...
Say I use a 10 ga wire( to where ever)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2019 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by jterr jterr wrote:


Say I use a 10 ga wire( to where ever)


If we say that then we should buy some marshmallows for the fire... 105 amps is lots of amps - if you are just going to the back of the engine to the breaker 4ga minimum - going more than a few feet then even bigger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2019 at 10:18pm
anyone interested in boat and engine???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2019 at 12:50am
Originally posted by jterr jterr wrote:

anyone interested in boat and engine???


Not me, wrong color combination

But as far as your alternator goes, the original PCM setup was a 37 amp alternator and a 40 amp breaker which later turned into a 50 amp alternator and a 60 amp breaker. Both of those setups used 10 gauge wire from the alternator.

So figuring that you have a 40 amp breaker and 10 gauge wire going to it from your 105 amp alternator, the breaker doesn't know or care what the alternator capacity is and it will trip at 40 amps going from the alternator to the battery to protect the alternator from overload. In this case it trips well before the alternator would be overloaded.

Your alternator has the capability to put out 105 amps but with the electrical loads on your boat, it never really will unless you have a direct ground somewhere

It's impossible to protect every inch of wire on the boat from every situation that could come up here

If you want to use all 105 of those amps, then you need much bigger wire and a bigger breaker Read this sentence two or three times

The main breaker will also function to disconnect the battery from the boat wiring except for the cable to the starter in certain situations like a direct ground.

37 amps or 105 amps from the alternator directly to ground along with the battery's hundreds of available amps will do some big time sparking and melting of wires

There are plenty of people running around with those big alternators and 10 gauge wire and the stock breaker because they just slapped in the alternator and didn't consider anything else

This will probably generate some discussion, but that's a good thing cause I could be all screwed up here   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2019 at 9:57pm
OK I've run into another problem with the wiring that the PO cut/removed???.
NOTE: I'm wiring up the Electronic Ignition and removed the MSD coil that won't work for this setup.

See Pic:
1)There is a cut red wire that is connected to the electric choke ;can't seem to find/see other end
2)Purple wires cut I think.



Found pic before I removed everything and shows the red wire just hanging
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2019 at 11:17pm
John,
Have you given anymore thought to Ken's suggestion of just starting over and rewire? Personally, I feel it would be easier.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2019 at 12:33am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by jterr jterr wrote:

anyone interested in boat and engine???


Not me, wrong color combination

But as far as your alternator goes, the original PCM setup was a 37 amp alternator and a 40 amp breaker which later turned into a 50 amp alternator and a 60 amp breaker. Both of those setups used 10 gauge wire from the alternator.

So figuring that you have a 40 amp breaker and 10 gauge wire going to it from your 105 amp alternator, the breaker doesn't know or care what the alternator capacity is and it will trip at 40 amps going from the alternator to the battery to protect the alternator from overload. In this case it trips well before the alternator would be overloaded.

Your alternator has the capability to put out 105 amps but with the electrical loads on your boat, it never really will unless you have a direct ground somewhere

It's impossible to protect every inch of wire on the boat from every situation that could come up here

If you want to use all 105 of those amps, then you need much bigger wire and a bigger breaker Read this sentence two or three times

The main breaker will also function to disconnect the battery from the boat wiring except for the cable to the starter in certain situations like a direct ground.

37 amps or 105 amps from the alternator directly to ground along with the battery's hundreds of available amps will do some big time sparking and melting of wires

There are plenty of people running around with those big alternators and 10 gauge wire and the stock breaker because they just slapped in the alternator and didn't consider anything else

This will probably generate some discussion, but that's a good thing cause I could be all screwed up here   


It is leaving hot from the sandbar that I would consistently trip the 50 amp breaker after I installed a bigger alternator without the wire/breaker upgrade- battery partially discharged from radio play and full charge coming from the alternator cause you know I was leaving hot. Mostly just annoying- the 100 amp breaker and 4 guage wire cured it. Not sure a standard battery would ever trip a 50 amp breaker but the Optimas have a pretty low resistance and will suck down a bunch of current.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2019 at 12:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2019 at 8:23am
JT

Look inside the black circle in the picture below and you'll find the answer on what to do with those wires................ hook them all together. since you don't have a ballast resistor.

Purple from the key gets hooked to the purple to the coil and the red to the choke.

This gives 12 volts to the coil and choke when the key is in the RUN or START position

No green wire needed since you have a 1 wire Delco style alternator

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2019 at 10:54am
Wow that is what I was gonna do as a last resort. Thanks again Ken, you the Man
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2019 at 11:51am
John,
Did you yet?
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


If you get your neighbor over, have him give you some pointers on using the VOM. Voltage and resistance testing is a great method of troubleshooting problems. If you don't have a VOM, I suggest getting one. A basic one is around $20 plus you can use it on the car and even the house.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2019 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

John,
Did you yet?
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


If you get your neighbor over, have him give you some pointers on using the VOM. Voltage and resistance testing is a great method of troubleshooting problems. If you don't have a VOM, I suggest getting one. A basic one is around $20 plus you can use it on the car and even the house.


I had him over yes- That is how we found some of the wires with that little gadget(VOM)

I understand you did the EC to your engine, how do you think it is working, and which kit did you use??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2019 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by jterr jterr wrote:

I understand you did the EC to your engine, how do you think it is working, and which kit did you use??

John,
I did not convert my 77. It came that way when I bought it. I'm not the biggest fan of the conversions. Early on certain brands were notorious to failure but I will admit that they have gotten better. My 54 and 64 have point sets that have never failed. If an EI conversion fails you are stuck unless you carry a replacement on board. With points the typical failure is corroded/pitted contact faces that with a quick cleanup will work again. I'd rather have a simple switch than a block of solid state electronics.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2019 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by jterr jterr wrote:

I understand you did the EC to your engine, how do you think it is working, and which kit did you use??

John,
I did not convert my 77. It came that way when I bought it. I'm not the biggest fan of the conversions. Early on certain brands were notorious to failure but I will admit that they have gotten better. My 54 and 64 have point sets that have never failed. If an EI conversion fails you are stuck unless you carry a replacement on board. With points the typical failure is corroded/pitted contact faces that with a quick cleanup will work again. I'd rather have a simple switch than a block of solid state electronics.


So your electronic conversion has had no issues for the 11 or 12 years you've owned the boat and who knows how many years before that.

That sounds pretty reliable to me

On your distributor it's a little more complicated to change back to points with that Prestolite system with a reluctor wheel in place of the points cam.

You need to change it right now Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-24-2019 at 11:00pm
I think I'm gonna just set mine back up to the original 83 setup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2019 at 9:07am
If that means you're gonna use points, then you need to look inside the black circle again and find a ballast resistor and hook it up.

The resistor should be about 1.3 ohms.

A good part number from NAPA would be Echlin ICR23 or you can cross reference it to other brands.

You could use that electrical gadget thingy with your neighbor and check the resistance of the 2 that were on your engine to see if you have a good one already

It'll run with no ballast resistor but it'll eat up your points a whole lot quicker

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2019 at 10:01am
Thanks we checked the old resister and it was good plus I had already bought 2 more. Going to get another alternator also that will work with exiting wiring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2019 at 10:21am
Originally posted by jterr jterr wrote:

Thanks we checked the old resister and it was good plus I had already bought 2 more.

John,
Did you buy that inexpensive VOM I mentioned yet? Getting the Ohm reading off your old ballast resistors would have saved you from buying more! Why did you buy two?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-25-2019 at 11:32am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by jterr jterr wrote:

Thanks we checked the old resister and it was good plus I had already bought 2 more.

John,
Did you buy that inexpensive VOM I mentioned yet? Getting the Ohm reading off your old ballast resistors would have saved you from buying more! Why did you buy two?


Already had one just didn't know how to use. If you remember in one pic the motor had 2 resistors, one got broke, so I just replaced them both might break another one

The way I bought stuff I might have 2 of everything
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2019 at 10:08pm
I sent the 65 amp alternator back and got a 50 amp but don't understand the wires.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2019 at 12:42am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

JT


Time to look at this picture again JT

You seem to be back to points so you wire up the resistor like it is in the black circle

Then the green wire that maybe you threw away is needed again. You run the green wire to the black wire that gets switched 12 volts in your picture. That's excitation for the alternator.

The red wire is the sensing wire and you have a couple of choices.

One choice is to put an ring type terminal on the end and hook it to the same output terminal that the big 10 gauge output wire hooks to. It senses output voltage right at the output of the alternator instead of remotely like the second choice below

The other is to run it back to the solenoid terminal that the positive cable from the battery hooks to so it senses voltage there.

The first choice is easier and in a boat without a bunch of loads like yours it works fine With lots of electrical loads the second choice is better since it's sensing voltage at the battery but in your situation there is practically no difference.

You could run a ground wire like in the diagram but it's not necessary as it will ground from the casing to the metal bracket to the big hunk of metal engine block.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2019 at 10:01am
Here's the red wire hookup to the output terminal in a picture

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jterr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-01-2019 at 10:41am
Thanks I didn't understand the "Battery Sense Wire" term, also still have the green wire.
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