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1998 GT-40 Starter not engaging

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    Posted: May-15-2019 at 10:12am
Anybody got time to walk me through what to do?

1998 Sport Nautique with GT-40; fully charged battery; turn key hear fuel pump, hear clicking/popping; starter not engaging.

Thanks for the help.

Charlie Sink
Lexington, NC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2019 at 11:20am
Last year I had relay failure which Keno and a few others assisted/solved the issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2019 at 11:25am
First things first... clean your battery cable terminals and make sure they’re tight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2019 at 12:09pm
Cleaned battery cables and all connections thoroughly.

Tried the positive battery terminal to red cabled solenoid connection - the starter does not engage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2019 at 12:09pm
Also replaced relays with extras I have on hand. No start.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2019 at 12:20pm
If all cable connections (both ends of pos and neg, all the way from the battery to the block and starter) are clean, tight and in good condition (free of corrosion and damage), then check the I/o at the relay. Make sure you have full batt voltage at the (batt) input and start terminal from the key switch... and that you get some voltage out when the key is turned. I would give the starter a good tap with a hammer as that may free it up if it’s stuck. Beyond that, it’s most likely the starter causing your issue if all else checks out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2019 at 12:30pm
You mention the battery is fully charged. Just to eliminate that as a possibility I'd either put a different battery in or use a jumper pack or cables to a good battery. Nice to eliminate the easy stuff before digging deeper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2019 at 12:56pm
TRBeng you wrote:
"then check the I/o at the relay. Make sure you have full batt voltage at the (batt) input and start terminal from the key switch... and that you get some voltage out when the key is turned"
Could you be a little more visual/specific for me? I'm not certain what I/o means nor what/where the batt input is.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2019 at 2:04pm
OK...the mysteries of this boat continue. It is cranking up. Hmm.... to some degree I enjoy these mysteries, to some degree I find them quite fun to process. But this GT-40, this 1998 Sport Nautique with only 260 hours on it has offered up some newbies.

My last GT-40 burned in a house fire, my neighbor was burning leaves...(and you know the rest of the story).

I have had three GT-40's, owned one or another continual since 1998. This one is by far the most interesting one.   Hope it continues to crank but I gave no idea why it is cranking now...and wouldn't crank an hour ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2019 at 2:18pm
TRBeng maybe it was smacking the starter with the hammer. I did that, then it started.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2019 at 11:51pm
Certainly wouldn't be the first.   Though it's never happened to me I've heard of this many times in older automotive, but more so in marine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2019 at 11:59pm
Originally posted by gt40KS gt40KS wrote:

Certainly wouldn't be the first.   Though it's never happened to me I've heard of this many times in older automotive, but more so in marine.


Don't I remember you having a "slow" starter Joe?

After "hammer time" I figure it's time to think about a fluff and buff on your starter or a rebuilt or a new starter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2019 at 12:11am
I'm fairly experienced at crawling under vehicles and pounding on starters. Amazing how often it works.

Yes, glad it is spinning but like Ken said it won't fix itself, and at some point on the water you'll bang on it and that won't solve it any more. Time for a new one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2019 at 4:31pm
Thanks for everybody's help. I both have anxiety at times but at the same time enjoy figuring out- with help- my Nautique issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oldlegbone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2019 at 4:37pm
This happened to me last year and I got an Arco starter. Fixed every issue and weighs less than half of what the old monster did which makes the installation pretty easy.

If you can get the right one from overtons the coupon code water30 gives you 30% off for today and tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2019 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by oldlegbone oldlegbone wrote:

This happened to me last year and I got an Arco starter. Fixed every issue and weighs less than half of what the old monster did which makes the installation pretty easy.

If you can get the right one from overtons the coupon code water30 gives you 30% off for today and tomorrow.


One slight problem here, you had a big old monster that was original in your 87 that you replaced with a permanent magnet lightweight starter and he has a 98 that came with the permanent magnet starter as original equipment unless somebody swapped it out over the years

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldlegbone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2019 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by oldlegbone oldlegbone wrote:

This happened to me last year and I got an Arco starter. Fixed every issue and weighs less than half of what the old monster did which makes the installation pretty easy.

If you can get the right one from overtons the coupon code water30 gives you 30% off for today and tomorrow.


One slight problem here, you had a big old monster that was original in your 87 that you replaced with a permanent magnet lightweight starter and he has a 98 that came with the permanent magnet starter as original equipment unless somebody swapped it out over the years




😂😂😂
I should have read the post in its entirety.
I just use the old starter as an anchor now.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2019 at 10:01pm
Charles,
If the starter fails to energize/crank the engine again, I'd be inclined to open it up and check/clean up the commutator and check the condition of the brushes.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2019 at 10:37pm
I seem to recall someone offering up the suggestion to me a couple years ago of buying a new one to get a me running reliably now.   Then take the old one and rebuild it in my spare time so I'd have a back-up.   Not a bad idea for you Charles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2019 at 12:16am
Originally posted by gt40KS gt40KS wrote:

I seem to recall someone offering up the suggestion to me a couple years ago of buying a new one to get a me running reliably now.   Then take the old one and rebuild it in my spare time so I'd have a back-up.   Not a bad idea for you Charles.


I like the way that guy thinks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2019 at 11:21am
Originally posted by gt40KS gt40KS wrote:

buying a new one to get a me running reliably now.   Then take the old one and rebuild it in my spare time so I'd have a back-up.   

Joe,
You may end up sitting on that spare starter for some time? Granted there's the old cliché "they don't make things like they used to" but I've never touched the starters in my 54, 64 or 77! I just finished rebuilding a 1969 Delco - Remy starter generator off a Wisconsin 14HP but they spin constantly when the engine is running. I'd say bench time for a new bearing, bushing, chucking it up in the lathe to clean up the commutator and then new brushes was around an hour. A starter is an easy rebuild if needed.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2019 at 1:52pm
Sounds like you are on the way to recovery.
My Brother has a 460 Ford powered Keaton Jet boat, he took on water and the starter got wet for several hours causing starter failure. We were camping for several days and just wanted it to run on this trip.. While he turned the key I hammered on the starter case and it started. If I did not hammer it did not turn.
After this trip a rebuild made his reliable again. ( he hates to turn wrenches so it went to a shop) For that weekend if he wanted to run we had to hammer. Not hard enough to damage anything, I think the vibration gets the brushes to connect but that is a guess.
The old hammer trick has been working for years but does not fix anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2019 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by gt40KS gt40KS wrote:

buying a new one to get a me running reliably now.   Then take the old one and rebuild it in my spare time so I'd have a back-up.   

Joe,
You may end up sitting on that spare starter for some time? Granted there's the old cliché "they don't make things like they used to" but I've never touched the starters in my 54, 64 or 77! I just finished rebuilding a 1969 Delco - Remy starter generator off a Wisconsin 14HP but they spin constantly when the engine is running. I'd say bench time for a new bearing, bushing, chucking it up in the lathe to clean up the commutator and then new brushes was around an hour. A starter is an easy rebuild if needed.


You probably haven't worn out any ignition switches either Pete   

How about spark plugs, you go forever on them too?

They probably come out real easy after 28 years or so
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-27-2019 at 5:03pm
So KENO - and others - my starter is still intermittently not engaging. Given what we've discussed/done about is the starter rebuild seemingly the logical path at this point?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-27-2019 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by rakerdeal rakerdeal wrote:

So KENO - and others - my starter is still intermittently not engaging. Given what we've discussed/done about is the starter rebuild seemingly the logical path at this point?

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Charles,
If the starter fails to energize/crank the engine again, I'd be inclined to open it up and check/clean up the commutator and check the condition of the brushes.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-27-2019 at 6:00pm
A rebuild or get a new one and then you can play "I wanna be like Pete" and tear the old one apart and see what ails it.

The permanent magnet starters are fairly straightforward to take apart and get back together too, but unless you're comfortable with the process then get it rebuilt or get a new one, then do some learning with the old one.

Since you've already checked all the other stuff like connections and the engine mounted relay, you might just try replacing the starter mounted solenoid also. You can get them separately and they're an easy swap. That would be the one mounted to the starter, not the one on the back of the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-27-2019 at 9:58pm
Again, thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2019 at 5:56pm
So as a followup to this...

We began a a long traveling trip and I did not buy a starter. I got home and literally once again began cleaning all my connections, which I had done before, but this time with a vengeance. The boat is cranking.

I suspected from many of the posts from those knowledgable helpers here who obvious know/suspect things....that there was suspicion that it was not my starter, that I was not doing something that I could be doing to make this boat start without getting a new starter and solonoid.

Fingers crossed, but it has started wonderfully the last 2 times we used the boat, since getting all the connections very bright and clean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2023 at 7:51pm
I'm back to not starting again.  Replaced the assist starter solonoid relay (the one on the back of the motor on behind the relay panel) and the starter itself a couple of years ago and all was well until today.  Battery fully charged, power to assist starter solonoid and to starter...

So if I am getting nothing out of the starter, or just an occasional slow turnover or a click here and there...

The boat is kept inside and things look great as far as connections and no corrosion.  I have a volt meter and have used it, but where to use it given sounds/no sounds or specific points (like on the starter) would help me.

Thanks for any help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rakerdeal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2023 at 8:33pm
Where is the best spot to check voltage from turning the key switch?  
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