Starter Click before starting |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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Posted: July-07-2019 at 9:21pm |
My 1995 GT40 Pro Boss equipped Ski Nautique has started to click when I hit the key to start. Battery is at full voltage, connections are clean and when it does turn over it does so with full power and spins fast.
Sometimes I hit the key 3-4 times before it actually starts to spin the engine. The other times it just clicks which indicates the solenoid is doing its job??? Some days it starts normally every time. It may be rusty contacts in the starter itself. I did remove and clean the starter connections, they are clean and good. Have not yet hit it with a hammer to shake rust loose. This is not the neutral safety switch acting up because you hear the audible click each time the starter is engaged. For me, it is not a big deal, but when someone else drives I have to explain the possible start delay. I should share that while building a new engine for my nephews Jeep 3 years ago I had to put this boat outside in Winter for a couple months and my cover leaked. There was moisture inside but I only remember a couple inches in the bilge, starter not underwater but I am sure this contributed to the current issue. Just curious what those with more electrical experience think before I tackle this. Thanks Mark |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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Is the click you hear at the starter mounted solenoid along with the engine mounted solenoid or just at the engine mounted solenoid?
Just the engine mounted one clicking would seem to tell me that the engine mounted one may have bad internal contacts and isn't sending power to the starter mounted solenoid If it's the starter mounted one clicking too, that one works like the typical GM starter and forces the pinion out along the shaft along with putting power to the starter to turn it. This click is louder since it's driving the pinion forward at the same time So in that case I think the starter motor itself would be suspect since the motor doesn't turn. You could put a voltmeter on the small terminal on the starter mounted solenoid, turn the key and see what you get for voltage there to tell you if the engine mounted one is passing current like it should down to the starter mounted solenoid. Of course, when you hook up test gear, the problem will absolutely refuse to duplicate itself |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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Thanks Ken, I am better with GM but have never been strong on electrical although I have been forced to work on more than I wish.
I appreciate the tips on checking this Ford. We have a 5 day ski trip planned starting the end of this week so I better get on it. I'll keey you guys posted. Mark |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Mark,
If the electrical tests Ken mentioned point you to the starter itself being the problem, pull the starter and open it up. You are very mechanically inclined so I know you can handle it. Once you pull the armature out, clean up the commutator and check the condition of the brushes. The only slightly difficult part of refitting the armature is getting the brushes retracted and onto the commutator since they are spring loaded. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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Thanks Pete, I will make time to check it out today and I appreciate the tips.
I am hoping it will be a quick fix. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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I checked the starter just now, I unplugged both fuel pumps to avoid starting.
It was doing the same clicking. I pulled the engine cover and could hear it engaging the bendix on the starter each time but the engine was not turning every time. I pulled the exhaust fan and hoses to get them out of the way and then pulled the starter. A surprise while doing this. The Lower Mounting Bolt was loose when I went to remove it. This engine has 175 hours since new and I have never had a wrench on the starter except for the power cables. I have the starter out and it tests perfect on the bench, Engages and spins every time. I took a couple pictures and the lower bolt does not show any signs of movement but the upper bolt which came out tight does show it has been moving. I now suspect a bad ground causing this issue? The last time I had a starter apart it took me 2 hours to get it back together so I am not looking forward to opening this one up for practice if the ground is my issue. What are your thoughts? I am trying to post pics of the mounting bolts but I have not figured out how to do that on my Mac, it is easy on my windows based computer so I will try to get it done there. Mark |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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Pics of the removed starter, it looks to me like the lower starter bolt was never tightened from the factory based on the paint still not marred up from a bolt tightening.
The upper bolt was tight coming out but you can see the housing is marked from what I assume is movement due to the loose lower bolt. But did this cause the click rather than start issue. |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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YES, you may have it
That qualifies as a poor ground, no doubt will not pull required amps and no turny-turn |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Mark,
Any signs of arcing between the starter frame and bell housing? |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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I did not notice any signs of arcing Pete. I bench tested the starter about 25 times, it worked each time so I whimped out and did not tear it down.
Re installed it after cleaning the bolts and lock washers, used a little dielectric grease on them and put it back in. The lower bolt is very hard to get fully tight. I was only getting about 1 click of movement with my 3/8 ratchet due to space issues but it is now tight. Hooked up the battery and tested it about 25 times. It engaged and started to spin each and every time. Before tear down it would engage and spin on the first try maybe 2 out of 5 times. I could get it to engage every time by turning the key again, sometimes 3-5 times but it would always start. Right now I think this is fixed. After the fact I did a google search on loose starter bolts and it came up in the top 3 reasons for starters not engaging. I would have thought the Top bolt would have grounded it just fine since it was fully tight on tear down but it seems to be fixed so I guess we found the issue. 24 years later should this be under Correct Craft Warranty since they left it loose? Maybe PCM warranty? Thanks for the consultations. Have a great week. Mark |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10680 |
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If you use enough extensions hooked together to get the ratchet out in front of the front engine mount you can get a lot more ratchet movement and leverage on that bottom bolt |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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I did not try that hard to find another option Ken, I first tightened it with my 3/8 battery powered ratchet, I am really starting to like that tool, but it is only good for maybe 20 lbs of torque. All I had to do to finish was to add a little more torque and make sure it was tight so I did it one click at a time.
Thanks for the tip, will use it next time. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Whos brand did you buy? |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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Pete it was a Christmas gift from my son, he told me I was going to really start to like it and I am. It is a Milwaukee brand. Came with a nice storage case.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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Great to hear!
The tight threads could be from arcing over time, moving metal around little bit at a time |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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My favorite and what they don't make it's Porter Cable. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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Pete, I had to go back and correct Milwaukee, I spelled it wrong. Did not mean to tick off any locals!
Ken, your note on the extensions had me thinking so I went back in and with 3' of 3/8 extensions, every one I own, I got on the 9/16" starter bolt again. I got another 1/8" turn on it and feel better that it is tight. The extensions allowed a much better position to tighten the rear bolt but with the blower motor in place I had to get on that bolt blind, could not get a hand in there but it worked. I tightened it from 3" outside the engine cover about even with the Ski Pole but it worked well. Thanks |
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 943 |
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Awesome tool - I have 2 of them! Sure makes life a lot easier (and faster) at times. |
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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On Intake manifolds and Oil Pans it really saves time and is much lighter than grabbing my Impact gun and air hose. Now I just need to remember to grab it, old habits are hard to break.
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 943 |
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I understand completely. But after swapping the heads on my 6 liter diesel last year and an injector change just a couple weeks ago (not to mention all the disassembly/ assembly of my boat last year) I could easily add a dozen things to that list!
Anyway, glad you've got your starter figured out ! Just wish I could get mine figured out as well. |
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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