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what's up with my rudder??

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flyweed View Drop Down
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    Posted: August-04-2019 at 11:03pm
Hey guys,

Noticed THIS happening to the leading edge of my rudder. What the heck is going on? DO I need to replace it?? Any comments welcome.

Thanks


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MrMcD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-05-2019 at 3:44am
I am pretty sure that is the result of cavitation affecting your rudder.

With that said a buddy had his Malibu Skier docked at his dads dock on the Sacramento River for a year. He went down to use it and the battery was dead so he ran a cord down to the dock and hooked up a batter charger.   He left it for a couple weeks hooked up and in the river current.   The battery charger somehow caused electrolisis and it ate at his rudder, Prop and Fins. He had to replace them.   I never got to see the bad parts but he told us the story.

If your rudder looks like this what does your prop and fins look like?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-05-2019 at 6:51am
Yes, cavitation corrosion. The same phenomenon that can happen with any underwater gear just like a prop we just discussed in this thread.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-05-2019 at 8:27am
Damn that’s heavy. How deep is the pitting?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-05-2019 at 9:23am
Take a look back at this thread in the link down below from about a month ago.

You were obviously so hell bent on lapping your shaft and new prop that you didn't pay any attention to that rudder that was right in front of you  

Or it wasn't nearly as bad a month ago and didn't catch your attention

First picture in the thread, there is some damage before the Acme went on but it's hard to tell how much

One picture later on in the thread shows the other side of the rudder in good condition

I guess only you know how much difference there has been in a month or so

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-05-2019 at 11:12am
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

I am pretty sure that is the result of cavitation affecting your rudder.

With that said a buddy had his Malibu Skier docked at his dads dock on the Sacramento River for a year. He went down to use it and the battery was dead so he ran a cord down to the dock and hooked up a batter charger.   He left it for a couple weeks hooked up and in the river current.   The battery charger somehow caused electrolisis and it ate at his rudder, Prop and Fins. He had to replace them.   I never got to see the bad parts but he told us the story.

If your rudder looks like this what does your prop and fins look like?


MrMcD - yeah, it wouldn't be electrolysis.   I have noticed very small pitting starting over the course of the last several seasons. I very rarely put my boat on a charger during the season anyway.   I have definitely notice this get MUCH worse since I changed out the props just a few short weeks ago.

My Fins are nice and smooth, and my prop is shiny new.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-06-2019 at 9:20am
So whatcha gonna do about it?

You put a new prop on and the erosion got a lot worse with the Acme.

I'd be getting it repaired or at least doing a temporary repair with some epoxy and keeping an eye on it.

The Acme blades are probably a fair amount closer to your rudder than the original prop blades were.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-08-2019 at 1:39am
Yeah Ken...I think I"ll REPLACE the rudder next spring, for the remainder of this season, I'd just like to repair it.   For a temporary repair with Epoxy, do you have a "how to" or any advice?    Or is it as simple as mixing up a two part epoxy, and filling in the "cavitation" and then smoothing to match surface??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FLCaptain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-08-2019 at 1:49am
Yes. You can even use something as simple as jb weld. You need some build up and expectation of tear down.   If you're gonna run 10 hours a week or so then you’ll probably be fine not replacing the router and just building it up with an epoxy resin like a JB Weld or similar.   In the meantime order yourself a new rudder and then look under your hull and figure out what’s causing that kind of suction cavitation.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-08-2019 at 9:14am
Dan,
I've had very good results repairing cavitation worn pump volutes and casings with epoxies. I remember one pump I needed to repair every 6 months because the pipe fitter made the classic mistake of installing an elbow within 12 times the pipe diameter to the suction side of the pump causing the cavitation. Devcon has been around for many years and is my preferred


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-08-2019 at 10:16am
If you were to take a picture at the same angle as the one below showing prop blade to rudder distance, prop to strut distance and prop blade to hull clearance, it might be helpful as far as determining why the erosion is so bad

Take the picture with one blade tip at it's closest point to the rudder just like the picture shown

In a previous thread about your prop nuts, somebody thought you had a replacement prop shaft and maybe the length is different than the original.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-08-2019 at 2:10pm
Ken, I was thinking the picture above looked like the prop was pretty close to the rudder.
Went down and took a picture of my prop on the 95 Nautique. Distance looks the same but I note I should have used stainless set screws on the cutlass. My set screws show rust already.

The battery charger electrolisis I understand would not happen in standing water but in the ruver current the moving water creates the effect that ate away at my buddies Malibu parts.
I was told many boats that sit in the river have had this happen if they hook up battery tenders or chargers. I am sure someone understands why.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-08-2019 at 2:55pm
Mark,
Since you've brought up electrolysis a couple times and. just so everyone knows, It is not the same erosion that happens with cavitation corrosion.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-08-2019 at 3:12pm
Mark

The picture I put up was from Aussienorts a handful of years ago

Your picture and that one should give him something good to compare to.

Electrolysis removes unwanted, unsightly hair right Pete?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-08-2019 at 4:54pm
The damage on that Rudder is impressive. I hope we find out why it is happening for the OP and the rest of us to learn and avoid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-08-2019 at 5:36pm
Well, I can pretty much tell you HOW it happened.....1. the rudder is Original to the boat..so it's OLD, and it did have some slight cavitation happening in those spots over the last couple of years. 2. I replace the Original 4 blade OJ prop, with a new 3 blade 540 Acme prop.

That's ALL that's been changed.   I will do measurements of prop to rudder, etc when I get back up north to our place. The boats up there.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-08-2019 at 5:39pm
Your rudder is only 2 years older than mine which is in the pics above.
Something is off.
Sorry, I forgot the obvious, you may have 2,000 more hours use on yours, mine is young.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2019 at 6:09pm
yeah...my rudder (and boat) is pushing the 2400 hour mark. Still runs like a champ. I did JB weld in those spots and it seems to be holding up well. Will replace rudder either later this fall, before I winterize, or next spring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Netdewt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-02-2019 at 12:09am
What is cavitation, and what causes it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-02-2019 at 6:11am
Originally posted by Netdewt Netdewt wrote:

What is cavitation, and what causes it?

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Different areas of cavitation corrosion:





Some interesting reading on the subject


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Netdewt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-02-2019 at 11:37am
My Acme prop sings at low speeds after being rebuilt. Hope I’m not wrecking anything my using a rebuild...
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