Replacement engine for 1993 SNCB?

My ski partner just repowered his 93. He was goin* to make the old ProTec a GT40, but ended up finding a full GT40 bobtail. A little while back he was looking to sell a full GT40 fuel injection system setup. As I understand it, it was everything you need to make it a GT40 except the heads and cam. I’ll say his stripped down 93 with 310hp is a racehorse!
I can check to see if he still wants to sell, pretty sure he does.

Well when you get right down to it the question was about the "reinforcement" or really the lack of. reinforcement between the 2 middle cylinders on the FelPro gaskets like you can see in the pictures.

The Ford marine gasket has reinforcement between all the cylinders

One thing I do know is that you're avoiding the question about the "reinforcement"

I'm curious is the original topic for this issue has been resolved. I know of a 1993 RR Ski Nautique that is on my local lake (Lake Stevens, WA). It is fun to look at and compare to my 1993 standard rotation 1:23 boat. The RR boat is a true "bare bones" ski machine. No rear seats, no side pads, etc. It's like my boat, but stripped down to just what you need to ski.

We are so far off topic for the original post, I want to apologize but his post did start this so it is his fault!     
On your question about the gasket difference what you are seeing is a reinforcement.
You will see that if a certain area of a gasket is exposed to more heat or pounding.
It is reinforced in that area to help the gasket live longer.
Some engines have areas that are known to be failure areas so Fel-Pro will beef up those areas or change materials trying to help out.
The 351W uses a nice pattern of intake exhaust for the valve layout which should help cool the head evenly but in my experience they won't add reinforcement just for practice, it is to offset some known problems based on feedback from the customers.
In normal operation at full throttle the head can lift slightly from the combustion pressure. Wide open throttle pressure is about 600 PSI in the chamber. If the head design allows some areas to move more than others it can induce what they call pound out. Failure due to the head jumping up and down, it is like pounding with a ball pen hammer on steel, The first whack does not do much but if you do it 10,000 times it can start pounding the gasket out.
The Toyota 22R 4 cyl was famous for this failure, the Fel-Pro design gave extended life in that engine using a reinforcement like the one in the picture you posted.
Some designs do not need help, others like the 351W do evidently.
The amount of movement due to combustion is minimal, maybe less than .001 per explosion but it is the long term effect that can cause failures.
If you get detonation going on due to too much timing or a lean burn conditon the combustion pressure can jump up to 3,500 PSI or more, the amount the head moves can jump up over .003. That is when you really see some pound out quickly along with gasket failure and maybe piston/piston ring failure.
New engines like the new GM LS engines, 4,8L, 5.3L 6.0L, 6.2L and just about any other new manufacturers engine is casted so light today that they see movement of .002 to .003 in normal operation. That is why they all use the new Multi Layer Steel head gaskets.
Each layer of a Multi Layer Steel gasket (MLS) offers about .001 protection against movement.    3 or 4 layer gasket would offer .003 or .004 protection against head lift.
The engines will not run long at all wthout this type gasket protection but you see these same engines running MLS go 300,000 miles without a failure so the new tech is working.

we'll just call it a bad picture of the Ford gasket, the silver shows all the way around in real life and like I said, it ran fine, compression was fine. I'd guess the silver gasket material color has something to do with what it appears to show as leakage between all cylinders

I tried to talk the owner into leaving it alone but he wanted some more oomph

It was in his family since day 1 and never overheated, and well maintained with about 2500 fairly tough hours on it.

So since you're into explaining thingslet's hear why the top and bottom of a FelPro 17060 are different in the sealing areas between fire rings.

Just color me curious

The 2 pictures should be self explanatory

There are about 16 grades of Stainless within the 300 series. Some are magnetic and some are not. The ingrediants vary in each grade to achieve the compound requested.
Some are harder some are softer. Some are brittle and some are flexible. Each application has its own needs and cost always comes into the fray.
In your picture of the OEM head gasket it shows black between the cylinders if the photo actually shows it accurately. The only thing that turns that black is combustion blowing between cylinders. That only happens after an overheat or in severe detonation. Those areas should match the rest of your gasket. If your engine was still running great I will put it down to a bad picture.
I have seen gaskets go from looking like yours to burned right through in the same areas yours is black.

MrMcD wrote: Lower grade stainless is magnetic. Always has been but it does resist rust better than standard stamped steel and it is tougher. The OEM gasket you show is a perforated core gasket this is the cheapest way to manufacture a head gasket and uses less metal in the core of the gasket. The Fel Pro gasket is solid core. Should you overheat the solid core will resist crush better than a perforated core gasket. They also resist pound out in detonation far better than a perforated core gasket. All Performance gaskets are solid core.    In the picture shown it looks like the OEM gasket failed between all cylinders. Was this an overheated engine or bad tune induced?

The gasket was out of a perfectly good running engine that got some GT40P heads and a new manifold, cam etc Normal compression no failures

It was sealed rather well and was hard to peel off if you really must know

Just pointing out the same "cheap" SS used in the FelPro gasket as the Ford gasket.

How many times in this thread has it been said already that lower grade SS is magnetic?

Why don't you be useful and ask your FelPro connections why their 300 series is magnetic ?

The Ford gasket lasted plenty of years and hours with no issues and I imagine the FelPro will too.

KENO wrote: Not being sure if a Felpro marine gasket is also 400 series or 300 series, I figured the only way to find out was to order a couple of FelPro 17060 351W marine head gaskets and give them the same magnet test. I guess I'll know in a week or so By the way, if somebody is looking for these gaskets, try Rock Auto Parts 19.84 each as a wholesaler closeout. So 2 for about 50 bucks when shipping is included Not many left, so hurry up

Well, much to my delight the USPS brought me a package today. It was the gaskets I ordered from Rock Auto.

I figured that now I could compare the old Ford OEM marine gasket mentioned earlier in the thread with the brand spankin' new FelPro 17060 351W marine gasket.

Pretty easy to do

We'll start with the looks category FelPro wins hands down since it's brand new as compared to a 32 yearold well used Ford gasket

Then movin' on to the material category, specifically looking to see if the FelPro gasket is as magnetic as the Ford gasket. The FelPro advertising says that their marine gaskets are made of 300 series Austenitic stainless steel underneath the outer covering. (code for non magnetic)

Me and my trusty magnet held up the Ford gasket for a photo. It's quite magnetic.

What will happen with the FelPro was the big question. 300 series stainless would pretty much ignore that magnet and fall to the floor laughing at me.

I put the magnet on, held it up, took the same photo and it hung there just like the Ford gasket did

It took the same amount of force to pull the magnet off of either gasket.

Here are some pictures, you'll have to rotate them 90 degrees clockwise since the computer wasn't cooperating. The third picture is the FelPro package label







So much for that comparison I guess. Both would appear to have the same composition metal in them. Some 300 series that's magnetic or 400 maybe

If you have your doubts, just find a magnet and try it on one of these FelPro 17060 gaskets, it's pretty easy to do

Allright nuckelhead,   I did not know your mechanical experience was limited to Ford Small Blocks.   I thought you might wish to know the GM options are still out there.

I felt bad for directing you to the 500 series only to learn I led you awol with no Ford small block coverage.   They really are a great gasket for the price, you just need to build a big block 460 or a Chevy!

Ken, 351 W no luck, part has been discontinued.
I just checked the Fel-Pro listing.

I believe these were available when the 500 series were created back in the early 2001.
Today the listings available for Fords are the 520SD for the 460 or the 525SD for the 300 6 cyl and the 4.0 V-6, no coverage for the 302, 351W sorry.
In GM you can still get the 500 series for the 350 501SD, 305, 454 early and late, 4.3L
The old 2.8L V6, the 3.1L V6, the old 2.5L 4cyl, which I believe would cover the 3.0L GM 4 cyl used in so many Volvo Penta boats and the generators.
The only Dodge covered is the 3.9L V6.

These were originally only sold to the large rebuilders who had hard working customers.
I know the 4.3L GM V6 was only added to help a customer that supplied UPS.   UPS had many 4.3L's and the drivers were pounding out the stock head gaskets.
Later Fel-Pro added them as a Heavy Duty or Super Duty option for sale to everyone but there were never really advertised.

I don't know if the lack of Ford Small Block coverage reflects the stock gaskets rarely fail or if the Ford head bolts do a better job of protecting the head gasket from failure.
If there was demand they would still be available.

460's were in many Motorhomes and hard working trucks so they are still available.
4.0L Ford V6 still available says it must have been a weak design and the rebuilders want a better than factory product.
The 300 Ford 6 part 525SD was also used in the old UPS trucks and many medium duty trucks and delivery vans, still available to buy today.
Looking at the part numbers available today there are many gaps.
Lots of parts were discontinued.
502-504, gone
506 and 507 gone
These were some of the first released parts but when parts don't sell enough volume they are discontinued.

The 500 Series HD head gaskets are great gaskets for performance engines, the Stainless fire ring can hold up against detonation 3x better than standard steel.
They were developed to help Heavy working gas engines. Dump Trucks, tow vehicles etc.
They are flat pressed just like the performance and Marine but still use the standard steel body in the gasket. They are not much more money than a stock gasket. A good upgrade.

Should have asked Ken, I have the Severe Duty 500 series and Marine gaskets in my garage if you wanted a test. The lower grade stainless is magnetic but not as magnetic as steel.
I used to know the grades but it escapes me now.

Not being sure if a Felpro marine gasket is also 400 series or 300 series, I figured the only way to find out was to order a couple of FelPro 17060 351W marine head gaskets and give them the same magnet test.

I guess I'll know in a week or so

By the way, if somebody is looking for these gaskets, try Rock Auto Parts

19.84 each as a wholesaler closeout. So 2 for about 50 bucks when shipping is included

Not many left, so hurry up

Gary S wrote: I thought all felpro’s were stainless ringed now? I had use regular automotive felpro on my HM first time around with no problems, when I went with gtp’s and before I took it apart I decided to use Marine ones. Don’t know who made them, got them from skidim they Suspiciously looked oem Ford not felpro

Check the link below Gary

It has a picture of a Ford marine OEM head gasket that I took out of a PCM 351w engine that had never been apart.

Part number D7JE-6051-AB stamped right into it.

A magnet is strangely quite attracted to it

link