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96 SN EFI well after warm up problem

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-31-2019 at 11:16am
Fuel pressure readings will be very good to know at the starvation point. Could be as simple as a collapsed fuel line or the anti-siphon valve, but whatever it is, I hope you find it quickly!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-31-2019 at 3:57pm
Keno, nice write ups.   Your tips should get him back in action.
You seem to have full access to old threads. I was trying last night to go back and find the threads from my repair in 2014 and could not find them. Searching google and this site no luck. It looks like our information is not stored forever but drops off after about 2 years?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 96SNEFI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-31-2019 at 3:58pm
Wow. That PN thread sounds exactly like my story. Thanks for finding that. This is another of the problem I have with searching. I have no recollection of seeing that thread in my travels trying to figure this out.
I got the gauge but I'll have another more insistent look at the fuel lines and such at the tank. Maybe I'll cut the hose and slice the rest off the barbed fitting.
Wed or Thu next week.
Thanks everybody. I'll update the saga after if I'm at all successful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-31-2019 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

Keno, nice write ups.   Your tips should get him back in action.
You seem to have full access to old threads. I was trying last night to go back and find the threads from my repair in 2014 and could not find them. Searching google and this site no luck. It looks like our information is not stored forever but drops off after about 2 years?


I most always use Google to search the site, there's no time frame involved.

You can find stuff all the way back to the beginning of CCF.

Sometimes you have to be stubborn, pigheaded, try a million different key words to search for and then just plain get lucky

Here's one of your first ones in the link down below Mark. I searched "correctcraftfan MrMcD first post" and after about way too many minutes of clicking on the different results came up with what's in the link Actually I think it was the first since you joined on 1/18/14 at 6:41 PM and wrote the post in the link the same day at 7:11 PM

It also says you joined with a different user name originally which might make it a real challenge finding that very first post unless you remember the original user name

link
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-31-2019 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by 96SNEFI 96SNEFI wrote:

Wow. That PN thread sounds exactly like my story. Thanks for finding that. This is another of the problem I have with searching. I have no recollection of seeing that thread in my travels trying to figure this out.
I got the gauge but I'll have another more insistent look at the fuel lines and such at the tank. Maybe I'll cut the hose and slice the rest off the barbed fitting.
Wed or Thu next week.
Thanks everybody. I'll update the saga after if I'm at all successful.


You got that last sentence "not quite right"

It should be "I'll update the saga whether I'm successful or not, so you guys can keep trying to help if I need it"

I think you just might find the issue in the fuel system
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 96SNEFI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-31-2019 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:


You got that last sentence "not quite right"

It should be "I'll update the saga whether I'm successful or not, so you guys can keep trying to help if I need it"

I think you just might find the issue in the fuel system


Yer right! I will either way.
I'm more than a little worried that I might break something plastic so we'll see how I feel when I'm looking at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-31-2019 at 10:27pm
I have a 1994 and I'm guessing that your fuel tank is similar to mine. When I pulled the fuel tank out of my SNOB, there was a whole lot of tugging, twisting, pulling and swearing. At first, I thought that I was going to break something off - for sure. Nope. That tank is bomb-proof. The old hoses can really be a bugger to remove, but they finally came off with the proper amount of persuasion.

Good luck.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-31-2019 at 11:06pm
Remove the filler neck (the chrome part) out of the hose it will make life soooo much easier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 96SNEFI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-31-2019 at 11:26pm
Hoary crap! Iirc the anti-siphon and pick up are top front center. Do I have to pull the whole shebang out?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-31-2019 at 11:32pm
On my '95 SN I found it easier to slide the whole thing out.
That would also be a good time to repack the rudder while the tank is slid forward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 96SNEFI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-01-2019 at 1:19am
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

On my '95 SN I found it easier to slide the whole thing out.
That would also be a good time to repack the rudder while the tank is slid forward.


I did that a bunch of years ago by reaching under and dropping the rudder and approaching it that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-01-2019 at 1:28am
Originally posted by 96SNEFI 96SNEFI wrote:

Hoary crap! Iirc the anti-siphon and pick up are top front center. Do I have to pull the whole shebang out?


Bite the bullet...pull the tank out. Do it right. And while you're at it.....it's a good time for rudder maintenance as mentioned above. As long as the tank is out, it may be a good time to change-out your fuel sending unit (particularly if the original unit is still in the tank). Some guys here may disagree about replacing certain parts before they fail, but since getting the tank out is such a bugger, you can take advantage of the opportunity. Fuel sending units are not too expensive and can be kinda fickle as to when they decide to fail.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-01-2019 at 2:36am
Keno, you did find the first post Thanks. I will look some more. The post you found was Jan 2014, later that month I water tested and discovered the issues with the electronics.
Engine was shutting down or in limp mode.   That was fixed for good with the replacement of those sensors although as mentioned, it also got the oil change, new fuel filter at the same time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 96SNEFI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-04-2019 at 8:00pm
Ok. So I got the check valve or anti-siphon valve or ball valve off the hose connection...that other little brass piece attached to the tank attachment that a picture somewhere indicated. Undoing the clamp allowed the fitting to turn inside the hose.

Luckily the little screen fell out to somewhere where I happened to see it. I take the thing off and look inside yup a check valve. Looking around oh look at that a little screen.
There was some fibrous-ish looking material in it but I wouldn't say it was much or clogged. The screen itself had some other lightly caked material that maybe could restrict flow. Maybe the fibrous stuff and the material are enough?

What is the pipe sealant used on these fittings? I'm guessing not plumbing teflon tape...unless that could be used? It seems sorta like plumbers putty.

I tried to get the tank fitting off. Was able to un-do the larger nut but I don't know how the 90° thing comes out. I can move it slightly left to right but I don't know how it attaches.

Can I place the screen inside the recipient end and then screw in the brass check valve fitting? Would that crush and mangle the screen? Or would they figure each other out? The screen fits very nicely inside the check valve side sticking out about 1/4". But it doesn't want to stay there upon attempting to screw it in.

Thanks for the continuing help on this long drawn out saga.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-04-2019 at 8:30pm
I personally would leave the screen out. There is another screen in the low pressure pump,it will be good enough to catch any junk. When you remove the pump from its bracket the top of the pump can be taken off by removing the mounting studs. The screen is under it. 95’s and I think some 96’s had a throw away fuel filter mounted just before the LP pump as well,it might be a good idea
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 96SNEFI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-04-2019 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

I personally would leave the screen out. There is another screen in the low pressure pump,it will be good enough to catch any junk. When you remove the pump from its bracket the top of the pump can be taken off by removing the mounting studs. The screen is under it. 95’s and I think some 96’s had a throw away fuel filter mounted just before the LP pump as well,it might be a good idea


Well yeah...there's that honkin' big filter inside the FCC that wraps around the little pump inside of it. Oughtn't that to do all the filtering requirements? Or does the fuel really need to be filtered before it hits the outer pump?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-04-2019 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by 96SNEFI 96SNEFI wrote:

What is the pipe sealant used on these fittings? I'm guessing not plumbing teflon tape...unless that could be used?

Teflon tape would be my choice. There's not many things that will attack it and gas will not. I'm not aware of any pipe thread compound that will not be affected by gas. Blue Monster maybe.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 96SNEFI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-05-2019 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 96SNEFI 96SNEFI wrote:

What is the pipe sealant used on these fittings? I'm guessing not plumbing teflon tape...unless that could be used?

Teflon tape would be my choice. There's not many things that will attack it and gas will not. I'm not aware of any pipe thread compound that will not be affected by gas. Blue Monster maybe.


The intertubes is a fickle thing. I've read elsewhere to not use teflon plumbing tape on fuel fittings. I found some Permatex #2 on hand and used that.

So the update:
The saga seems to have ended. I just ran about 6 miles straight with a couple idle speeds and up to 4K and 3500 and 3K and back and forth revs...nary a miss (that I could detect).
It would indeed seem that a little bit of some unknown fluff and some slightly built-up gunk in the screen caused all of this. Perhaps not even to do with being warm but that was a pretty good test run that did NOT repeat the problem.

I did not detect any leakage at the fitting with the #2 goop.

It would seem that the coil was coincidental with this issue and that it was probably unnecessary to replace the distributor. Oh well.

Next year I'll put that thermostat back in and see what the temperature does while hot and running. I probably have some other issues (like water having unknowingly been spraying in the doghouse and wetting the carpet on the outside starboard side during this run). I suspect I probably have one or more cracked heads...but no water evidence in the oil yet.

Thank you everybody for your patience and input and ideas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-05-2019 at 8:24pm
Nothing at all wrong with Permatex 2.

Glad things are good right now

Be optimistic and tell yourself the water is from the water pump seal leaking   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-05-2019 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by 96SNEFI 96SNEFI wrote:

The intertubes is a fickle thing. I've read elsewhere to not use teflon plumbing tape on fuel fittings. I found some Permatex #2 on hand and used that.

Keep an eye on that fitting for a while. Permatex #2 only "resists gasoline, oil and grease" per their site. Teflon tape is rated ".A-Excellent" resistance.

I have a feeling what you found regarding not using tape on fuel fittings refers to flare and compression fittings?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 96SNEFI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-05-2019 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 96SNEFI 96SNEFI wrote:

The intertubes is a fickle thing. I've read elsewhere to not use teflon plumbing tape on fuel fittings. I found some Permatex #2 on hand and used that.

Keep an eye on that fitting for a while. Permatex #2 only "resists gasoline, oil and grease" per their site. Teflon tape is rated ".A-Excellent" resistance.

I have a feeling what you found regarding not using tape on fuel fittings refers to flare and compression fittings?


No it was NPT type fittings. Something about the teflon possibly flaking off and plugging up injectors or something.

But I will be keeping an eye on it anyway.

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 96SNEFI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-05-2019 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Nothing at all wrong with Permatex 2.

Glad things are good right now

Be optimistic and tell yourself the water is from the water pump seal leaking   


It's possible that after I saw the water, I lowered the lift back down and ran it a bit and maybe possibly saw dripping from the RWP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-05-2019 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by 96SNEFI 96SNEFI wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

I have a feeling what you found regarding not using tape on fuel fittings refers to flare and compression fittings?

No it was NPT type fittings. Something about the teflon possibly flaking off and plugging up injectors or something.
Thanks

Yes, I agree that with sloppy improperly applied tape, strands can foul any system including water.


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