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DD Shaft Coupler install?

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utahdave View Drop Down
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    Posted: October-23-2019 at 8:55pm
I am preparing to embark on a project to replace my cutless bearing.
I have studied a few threads on here.

My tug is a 2014 ski nautique 200 closed bow. 6.0 liter engine. 1799 hours.

I am worried the coupler is difficult to get back on the drive shaft once the project is complete and the shaft is reinstalled in the boat.

Can anyone tell me how easy / hard it is to get the shaft coupler back on the shaft?
Seems like you heat the coupler in the oven to 500 degrees...
Grab it with oven mitts...
Take it to the boat and it just slides on (down to the mark you made on the shaft to indicate the coupler location prior to removal)?

Thank you,
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2019 at 12:52am
I'm surprised Dave no one has answered you yet. If you haven't already done it - yes it can be difficult. It might even be better to heat up your grill right near the boat to heat the coupler so you don't loose heat running it through the house. Over the years I have been lucky,I've only had to do it once. If I ever have to do it again I seriously would think about a double taper shaft. Marking the shaft is a good idea,my two straight inboards the shaft is flush in the coupler. The v drive I thankfully have not even had apart......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2019 at 2:08am
i used my little camp stove next to the boat and grabbed the coupler with a vise grip.
As far as i could tell the PO never had it off and i had no problem sliding it back on. https://www.coleman.com/powerpack-1-burner-stove/2000020931.html?cgid=coleman-stovesandgrills-stoves#start=7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2019 at 12:28pm
I am assuming that you confirmed you have an interference fit coupler and not a dual taper?

If interference, the reinstall is the easier part... the pressing off is the more painstaking half.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-26-2019 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

I am assuming that you confirmed you have an interference fit coupler and not a dual taper?

If interference, the reinstall is the easier part... the pressing off is the more painstaking half.


What Tim said getting the coupler was a PITA as I said it looked as though the PO never had it off. Getting it back on was a piece of cake. ( just have everything cleaned and ready to slide it on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote utahdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2019 at 12:44am
Ok,
Thanks for the replies. Camp stove to heat the coupler is a great idea I would have NEVER thought of.

I need change course slightly...

Today I learned the shaft is a dual taper.
It has a key way on one end (see pic below), and it looks like there is thread on the end of the shaft.
Now I don't know how to remove it...

It looks like it is this coupler on Nautiqueparts:
https://www.nautiqueparts.com/product/coupler-1-for-double-taper-shaft-direct-drive/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2019 at 1:31am
Assuming that the Nautique/CC double-taper shaft is similar to the A.R.E. shaft, you can read "How To" on the following link:

LINK

Look at item number nine (9) called "separator". You may need to get one...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2019 at 8:05am
Originally posted by utahdave utahdave wrote:

Ok,
Thanks for the replies. Camp stove to heat the coupler is a great idea I would have NEVER thought of.

I need change course slightly...

Today I learned the shaft is a dual taper.
It has a key way on one end (see pic below), and it looks like there is thread on the end of the shaft.
Now I don't know how to remove it...

It looks like it is this coupler on Nautiqueparts:
https://www.nautiqueparts.com/product/coupler-1-for-double-taper-shaft-direct-drive/



I don't see any internal threads like an ARE shaft has, so you're screwed

Just kidding

You can use a tool that's like this one in the link.

link

Not saying that particular one will work but you get the idea, it bolts to the coupling and the center bolt pushes the shaft out of the coupling when you tighten it. You might need a shorter center bolt than the one in the link for a tight working area

Or you could remove it with the same technique as removing an interference fit non tapered coupling by removing the nut and putting a spacer between the shaft and the transmission shaft and using longer bolts, tighten them slowly working around the flange till the coupling pops off the taper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2019 at 9:59am
When it lets go it might launch the prop and shaft into the rudder.. Be prepared.
Keep it as original as YOU want it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2019 at 10:02am
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

When it lets go it might launch the prop and shaft into the rudder.. Be prepared.


If he leaves the nut on, but backed off a few turns or so, it'll pop but not launch itself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2019 at 10:24pm
His shaft has a centering hole on the end. Is that to locate a Puller, maybe a 3 Jaw puller would offer enough pressure to pop it out.
I know you cant pull too hard or it is possible to warp the coupler, another reason to follow the advice to slowly work around and add pressure to pop the shaft loose.
It may come off as hard as a properly seated prop breaks loose so be prepared.

I think I found one of my sockets was the right diameter and strong enough to fit in the middle and take my shaft off. I used the longer bolt technique on my non tapered shaft and was carefult to only apply about 1/4 turn per nut working around and around the shaft until it finally separated.
Re installed with an ARE shaft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2019 at 1:24am
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

His shaft has a centering hole on the end. Is that to locate a Puller


Not exactly what it is for but will certainly work for that purpose. It is too locate and steady the shaft while machining. A center drill was used to make the hole.
Keep it as original as YOU want it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote utahdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2019 at 9:01pm
Question: The shaft is snug in the new cutless, and is riding fairly low in the log. Is the proper method to correct this to remove the strut, clean off all the old 5200 sealant, shim with washers and re-seal the strut to the boat? The shaft isn't rubbing on the bottom of the log (my log is a metal thru hull fitting) but there is not a lot of room there. I didn't bang on the shaft with a hammer or anything that I can think of that would have moved it.



Thus far, I have:
-removed the shaft
-removed the old cutless bearings
-installed the new cutless bearings
-cleaned the gunk of the shaft and coupler with goo gone and a rag
-used a dial indicator to check the shaft for straightness (marked every 6") was within .0015 at all points
-lubed the shaft with water, slid in today and noticed the shaft is low in the log.

Thank you,
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote utahdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2019 at 9:20pm
To give you a bit more info.- when the shaft is riding low, it turns freely by hand from the engine or prop end. If I put the rubber hose and packing nut on (but don’t clamp on place), the shaft rises higher in the LOF but the shaft is barely able to be turned by hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2019 at 10:12pm
Nothing to do with your present problem, but since you asked how to get the coupler off, I'll ask "How did you get the coupler off?"

I must have missed that reply
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote utahdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2019 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Nothing to do with your present problem, but since you asked how to get the coupler off, I'll ask "How did you get the coupler off?"

I must have missed that reply


Coupler removal-
I used the 4 longer (2-3/4" I think) bolts trick with a socket on the head of the driveshaft and tightened each bolt about 1/4 turn at a time.

I had already dropped the rudder prior to doing this. I loosely put the shaft collar in place to prevent the shaft from rocketing toward the rudder area and prevent damage to the shaft or anything else.

To remove the cutless bearing, I used the saw-zall in the 12'o clock position to cut almost all the way through the bearing and finished the "cut" with a rounded dull chisel-esque drift pin.Once the cut went the entire length of the cutless bearing, they tapped out easily.

I did order the 6" replacement bearing from NautiqueParts and cut it into two 3" pieces (removed burrs). Installed one piece on the bow end of the strut with the threaded rod, other end on the stern end with the threaded rod.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote utahdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-10-2019 at 3:40pm
Ok, I found this thread this morning.

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41301&title=strut-alignment-help-needed

From what I read, it does looks like I need to take the strut off and either grind the strut base or shim it with washers (on the stern end in my case) to get the shaft to ride a bit higher in the log.

Shout out to Hollywood for this tip which I plan to use:
[QUOTE=Hollywood] I "dry" fit with a few layers of masking tape. If you've ever taken a strut off you'll see there is a layer of sealant between the strut and the hull. So, a true metal to gelcoat contact would be closer than the real fit with sealant between.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-10-2019 at 3:43pm
Dave,
Your engine could also need some adjustment vertically.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-10-2019 at 9:53pm
What I get out of reading this thread is that you changed the strut bearings, you didn't touch the engine/transmission, you didn't change the shaft, it's original and straight and you didn't do anything to disturb the strut mounting/alignment.

You really did nothing to mess anything up from what I can tell

How easily or hard did the shaft turn before you took anything apart?

Where was the strut bearing worn?

Why not put the coupling back on if it's not already on and do an alignment check/ bolt it to the transmission and see if it's way out of whack coming through the log

How about a picture of the shaft coming out of the log from inside the boat?

Typically people center the shaft in the front of the log with a split hose , wedges, a split piece of PVC etc to temporarily support the shaft and overcome the effects of gravity working on all that length of shaft in front of the strut

Questions, questions.............but it doesn't seem like you changed anything so why not check the alignment before maybe changing something you don't need to?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote utahdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-11-2019 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

What I get out of reading this thread is that you changed the strut bearings, you didn't touch the engine/transmission, you didn't change the shaft, it's original and straight and you didn't do anything to disturb the strut mounting/alignment.

You really did nothing to mess anything up from what I can tell


You nailed it-that has been my process thus far


Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

How easily or hard did the shaft turn before you took anything apart?


I would say the shaft turned medium difficult before I took it apart. Definitely could not turn it with one finger on one blade of a prop. It would take grasping the end of a prop blade firmly with my whole hand to move the prop.

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Where was the strut bearing worn?

The strut bearing was worn the worst of all at the stern end.
Next worst wear was at the bow end of the strut.
When I grabbed onto the prop and did the "move it side to side and up and down" test to assess for strut bearing wear, the prop moved several millimeters in every direction.
When I unbolted the shaft/trans coupler, the shaft probably dropped 1/2 inch.
This surprised me at the time, b/c when I unbolted the coupler in my prior boat (1999 SN) several years ago, the shaft hardly dropped at all.

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

How about a picture of the shaft coming out of the log from inside the boat?

Surely...and I'll stop calling you Shirley...


Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Why not put the coupling back on if it's not already on and do an alignment check/ bolt it to the transmission and see if it's way out of whack coming through the log

I think this is worth a try. I put the coupler back on the shaft, slid it to the trans, and the shaft coupler appears centered Port to Starboard (pic below is deceiving), but the top of the shaft coupler is 5/16" lower than the top of the trans coupler.



Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Typically people center the shaft in the front of the log with a split hose , wedges, a split piece of PVC etc to temporarily support the shaft and overcome the effects of gravity working on all that length of shaft in front of the strut


Definitely. Thanks for that tip. I had also seen that trick online in a Ron Tanis Youtube video. I am replacing the rubber hose segment that is part of my shaft log packing assembly. I cut a piece of that old log hose to do the above technique to center the shaft in the log / thru hull. That scrap hose is about 7/32 thick. I did confirm with other pieces of that hose that there is room for 7/32 all the way around the circumference of the shaft between the shaft and the thru hull. There is a bit more on the top- say 9/32 to 5/16.

It requires a little bit of upward pressure to get the shaft high enough in the log to get the hose underneath it.

Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Questions, questions.............but it doesn't seem like you changed anything so why not check the alignment before maybe changing something you don't need to?


Good questions. I am highly interested in getting a great result. Right now, I think it looks like the strut needs to come of and be re-aligned to the log
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-11-2019 at 6:28pm
Wait... is this the first SN 200 repair ever on CCF?
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https://forum.fifteenoff.com




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2019 at 10:26am
From your description of what it was like before, it sounds like the alignment was off to start with and it sounds like you've found videos and how to's.

By the way, you're the first person to answer every question asked. Good job and good luck.

Oh .............you can call me whatever you want.....................Shirley or Leslie or Frank or Lt. Drebin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2019 at 8:46pm
The shaft will have a position where it wants to ride, in that spot it will rotate more freely than in any other position. We have refered to this as the Happy Spot of your shaft position. You can cut a short piece of a 2x4 wood, make it long enough to place under the shaft and against your boat bottom close to your coupler to use as a support.
Cut a V shape about 1 and 1/4 " wide at the top of your 2x4.
The shaft has weight to it and will sag at the front normally.
Start turning your shaft, while turning it lift or move port and starboard till you find the Happy Spot where your shaft can be rotated and has the least amount of drag or resistance to turning. In this spot your shaft is the most straight running through your new cutlass bearing.
Take your 2x4 block, place the shaft in the V cut you made and slide the block forward or rearward till you are supporting your shaft in the Happy Spot. My 2x4 was about 4" tall, your boat is different so hold your shaft in the proper position and measure what length of a 2x4 is needed.   With the shaft in the Happy Spot and your block in place the shaft should sit there by itself and you can look at your engine alignment and the placement of the shaft in your log to see if any adjustments are necessary to mate the engine to the shaft at this exact place.
My strut had been bent striking a log on the water so I had to make adjustments to the strut which involved removing it from the hull and tweaking it to fit with washers and some sanding. Once installed in the Happy Spot my prop will turn with only one fingers pressure.
I did use the new plastic style cutlass bearing so it has less drag than a traditional rubber bearing but the important note is to make sure you are installing it so it has the least amount of drag.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2019 at 10:43pm
Grant McClaren (sp) made up a really neat laser pointer that fit into the strut and projected a beam up thru everything all the way to the center of the coupler. Have not seen him on here for a long time. You could search his posts and maybe find it.

He is an ingenious kind of guy. Think his boat says "Mac Skier" on the back. He just kinda slid into the shadows, got tired of the BS and being picked on by one of the members
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