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1950 atom

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connorssons View Drop Down
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    Posted: December-07-2019 at 8:45am
hello all! working on removing the sides on my atom, plywood sides. seems most screws are put in at an angle, what is the best way to remove them without stripping all the brass screws ?
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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-07-2019 at 9:26am
Jeff,
Make sure you get the screw heads cleaned as best as you can so the screwdriver can get a good grip. It just takes time. .Screws on an angle? I think that's just another one of CC's fine workmanship back then.    BTW, the screws should be silicon bronze.


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Keep it original, Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67 ski nat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-07-2019 at 12:11pm
Pete, should he try and reuse original screws or get new of same type
Would you try a Easy-out screw extractor if it strips?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-07-2019 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by 67 ski nat 67 ski nat wrote:

Pete, should he try and reuse original screws or get new of same type
Would you try a Easy-out screw extractor if it strips?


Daryn,
I'd say Jeff's chances of removing all the screws easily are very high. The frames are Mahogany and it being relatively soft, the screws should come out without a problem. However, if he runs into a tough one, I've had pretty good luck with this type of   screw extractor. New silicon bronze screws would be my choice just because they are available in Phillips or square drives making them easy to drive over a slotted. DO NOT use brass or stainless screws.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote connorssons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2019 at 9:15am
thanks pete! on the type of screws, they do come out easy if the slot is not stripped.the spray rail is proving to be the worst to get. on disassembly of the ply wood sides I have noticed I believe to be the knee braces are almost all split, so what type of ply were those made from?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2019 at 9:46am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

DO NOT use brass or stainless screws.


Inquiry minds wanna know......Why not Professor Brainard?
"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2019 at 9:54am
I made mine from scrap mahogany plywood I had. Any AC plywood will do but always good to CPES all parts before securing.
The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorwoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2019 at 10:10am
I will be curious to see how your stem looks after removing the skin.
The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2019 at 10:38am
Originally posted by Morfoot Morfoot wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

DO NOT use brass or stainless screws.


Inquiry minds wanna know......Why not Professor Brainard?

The zinc in brass and they become very brittle. Stainless will rust.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2019 at 10:38am
Originally posted by juniorwoody juniorwoody wrote:

I made mine from scrap mahogany plywood I had. Any AC plywood will do but always good to CPES all parts before securing.

Yes.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2019 at 10:40am
Originally posted by connorssons connorssons wrote:

.the spray rail is proving to be the worst to get. on disassembly

Jeff,
The spray rails are screwed on from both the inside and the outside of the hull.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67 ski nat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2019 at 11:04am
Ditto. My screws at spray rail did not survive either
Thanks for bronze heads up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2019 at 10:25am
Pete is there any real evidence that the stainless will rust? I know the thinking and have read what Dannenberg says about using them but it seems restorers like to use silicon bronze and modern new boat builders prefer stainless. There are a lot of boats being built with stainless screws. The Collegian I'm restoring is full of them, the entire bottom and a lot repairs were done with stainless and as I'm removing them they look as good as the day they went in which was easily over 10 years ago. there is a big price difference between the two materials and I'd like to use stainless when I put this boat back together. I find it hard to believe all the guys building new wood boats could be in the wrong. Not trying to be a wiseguy, I'm looking for real evidence they are inferior. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-09-2019 at 11:52pm
Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

Pete is there any real evidence that the stainless will rust? Thanks

Alan,
I have see failed SS screws but, I feel it was the SS type and what Dannenberg is concerned about. A friends Chris's bottom was failing. A PO had refastened it and used SS screws BUT, they were SS deck screws and most likely 400 series. The friend showed me some of the screws he was able to remove.and they were corroded almost all the way through. Others were simply snapping off. Now, if you used type 316 SS screws, then I have a feeling there wouldn't be a problem. I'll bet the SS screws you are finding are 316.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2019 at 10:41am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

Pete is there any real evidence that the stainless will rust? Thanks

Alan,
I have see failed SS screws but, I feel it was the SS type and what Dannenberg is concerned about. A friends Chris's bottom was failing. A PO had refastened it and used SS screws BUT, they were SS deck screws and most likely 400 series. The friend showed me some of the screws he was able to remove.and they were corroded almost all the way through. Others were simply snapping off. Now, if you used type 316 SS screws, then I have a feeling there wouldn't be a problem. I'll bet the SS screws you are finding are 316.


18-8 is used for general purpose and 316 is recommended for salt water boats.
The 18-8 are almost half the cost of Silicone bronze, the 316 are about the same as silicone bronze.   In a boat like the Collegian there are about 2000 screws for the sides and transom of the boat at an average of 25 cents per screw so switching to the 8-18 can save about $200.

Another cost saving item would be the 5200. When I did the Hurricane it cost $13 per tube, It now costs $22 per tube for the mahogany color, slightly less for white which can be used on the bottom or on a painted boat but for bright finish you need the mahogany. there is a product that a few builders are playing with from bostick called 920, it is a urethane like 5200 with similar specs. It costs about $9 per tube but only comes in white and black so it doesn't help me at all but maybe Jeff could use it and save a few bucks.

Just for grins I used 92 tubes of 5200 when i did the Hurricane, that's almost $1200 back then but is over $2000 now.   The lumber always appears like it will be the largest expense on these boats but fasteners, adhesive, paint, varnish, etc will cost far more than lumber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2019 at 10:59am
Bottom line - hobbies cost money. 34 years ago I restored an MG. Body work and paint alone was 4K. Inflation calculator says that’s equal to 14K now. Very happy to sell it this fall for 15. Imagine the costs if you figured in your time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2019 at 11:28am
Alan,
Sounds like you have a plan. Just don't get the cheap SS deck screws made in China at the Depot!


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