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gravyleg pirate View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gravyleg pirate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Busted Block
    Posted: April-02-2020 at 11:47pm
Not really a question, more of a "holy crap I can't believe this happened". We ripped out the carpet last year and are going to lay down Sea Dek when the weather turned cold and we had to put her in storage for the winter. Got her out last weekend and after cleaning up a couple of things I thought I'd fire her up and see how she sounds. Maybe even hit the lake for a spin even though we don't have carpet, an engine cover or many seats.

Charged the battery, hooked up my garden hose and hit the start button. Heard the engine turn over beautifully with that nice throaty 275hp sound...with something extra. It was water spraying out at a high rate of speed against the wall. Lo and behold, I have a crack.

So, what size motor should I put in next? Would be nice to be a part of the corvette crowd!
GLP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 12:45am
Not sure what the easy replacements for the 5.0 would be. I'm sure someone will jump in. Sorry to hear, that really sucks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DVskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 1:05am
GT-40 would be awesome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 5:48am
How bout an ExCal swap? I
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 8:17am
Earl,

Yes, when that happens it does suck. Sorry to hear about the problem.

Was the engine winterized? If so, explain how it was done so others may not experience the same. problem.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 11:14am
Im thinking a 6.2 with the whipple kit should put in the four and half hundred range. Nice little re power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 11:47am
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Im thinking a 6.2 with the whipple kit should put in the four and half hundred range. Nice little re power.

   but $$$
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 12:34pm
Would be good to know age and exactly which engine you’ve got to start with... carb vs efi etc. Trying to reuse existing setup to what extent, etc?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 12:40pm
From his diary it's the 5.0 275 HP GM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 12:47pm
Well crap.. you didnt say there was a budget.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 12:56pm
5.7 vortec will give you a noticeable increase in hp and all your stuff will fit. Piece of cake if your carbureted. Not sure what you can or would need to do with injection. There's plenty of guys here that do know though. I went from 5.0 old style carbed to the 5.7 vortec last repower and I must say the boat runs quite nicely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Well crap.. you didnt say there was a budget.


Well since it's not my money, I'd put an Ilmor in it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

From his diary it's the 5.0 275 HP GM.


And from an old thread here's a picture

Model Year 2000 Throttle body injected

I figure the engine tag starts with PLG but he could verify that

Originally posted by gravyleg pirate gravyleg pirate wrote:



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 1:00pm
I bought it remanned from Center State Engine. came with pan, wp and intake. They will build anything to your spec and the price was right. Discount on shipping to a shop with fork truck. I also had trouble getting it timed and tuned right and their CS was very helpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 2:20pm
GM Vortec is the biggest bang for the buck. Great engine..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gravyleg pirate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 2:27pm
It is the original 5.0 PCM and I winterized it two years ago. Last summer our lakes were flooded and no one was able to get on the water. That's why the good idea fairy showed up and told us to refurb the interior.

This crack could have happened at any point over the last two years, but we store it in our local caves where it doesn't get colder than 60 degrees. I thought I drained it well enough and dumped in enough RV antifreeze but who knows.

What restrictions do I have in replacement engines? Anything that will fit and does it have to be a marine engine?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 2:37pm
The world is your oyster...

But to speak thoughtfully, we need to understand your restraints and must haves, budget, platform, injection, zero off, brandy-new, this DIY basic, hobbyist/enthusiest or contracted out... etc...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gravyleg pirate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 2:48pm
I'm pretty handy through the power of this forum and Youtube, but would prefer someone install it for me.

I don't even have a ballpark of what a replacement engine would cost to begin with or what I am looking for. As this one is only the 275hp I'd like to find something fuel injected with a bit more power to get my inlaws out of the hole a little better.

Something under $5k?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 3:02pm
I suspect those 4 things won’t go together. Pick any 2, maybe 3 if you’re lucky.

Fuel injected
More power
Paying for someone to install
Under $5k
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

I suspect those 4 things won’t go together. Pick any 2, maybe 3 if you’re lucky.

Fuel injected
More power
Paying for someone to install
Under $5k


I like that thought process

Since you already have fuel injection and the bad parts are the block and maybe head(s) why not get a 305 marine long block like what's in the link below

Forget about more power and then you've got 2650 bucks left over to spend on transferring parts to the new long block and getting it installed if my 'rithmetic is right.

No calibration issues since all the original fuel injection parts are getting reused.

Considering turn around time and effort involved it's hard to beat

The more you do yourself, the more you save.

Otherwise that 5K ain't gonna get you very far

link

Or go the junkyard engine/block route and transfer parts if you're handy enough

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1TAZZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 6:51pm
Do you have water in your oil , if it is just a cracked water jacket you can repair it in the boat using block stitching , Look up lock-n-stitch I have fixed a few cracked car blocks It works great..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by 1TAZZ 1TAZZ wrote:

if it is just a cracked water jacket you can repair it in the boat using block stitching , Look up lock-n-stitch I have fixed a few cracked car blocks It works great..

Joe,
I'm very familiar with the process and personally don't feel stitching is an option. It will never pull the crack tight enough to be water tight. With the closed cooling on a automotive block you typically of add a "stop leak" product.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gravyleg pirate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 8:18pm
So as I start tracking down options, do I need to worry about what will match up with the transmission as a direct drive?

What about the engine mounts? Do I have to find something to fit exactly or is there some leeway?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1TAZZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 9:06pm
At this point he has nothing to lose , worth a try but it looks like he is ready for a new motor . The new stitching pins pull the block together . The kit is $250 vs $3000 either way it sucks and good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 10:16pm
Pete

I think 1TAZZ is pretty familiar with the process too since he works at a machine shop

It's hard to tell from the pictures if the crack goes all the way up to the head gasket area on the deck of the block.

If GLP was to find a local auto machine shop that does this, he could get an in person opinion.

I might be worried that I got the block stitched and 2 weeks later the same thing happens in another spot or internally though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 10:38pm
If it was me GLP, I'd be talking to a CC dealer to get all the info you can on the engine.

You might say it wasn't the most popular engine PCM ever made

Then if for example you want a long block like what I linked earlier from ATK engines, talk to them to tell them what you have and see if their VMM2 long block is compatible.

I would guess that it is but could tell you if they have something else.

Everything that bolts to your block now like the exhaust, flywheel, harmonic balancer, bellhousing, starter, damper plate and transmission, ignition system and injection system will swap right onto a same era long block like the ATP one.

I'd make sure your manifold is compatible with the heads (it should be) and that the mounting holes at the front of the heads for accessories are the same.

A good thing would be to take a valve cover off and verify the casting numbers

The referenced engine has a roller cam and yours should too, but it would be good to verify.

Let the engine place tell you what you need if in doubt, then at least it's their fault if they get it wrong

Lots of things to think about so take your time with the research and if you come up with questions, ask here

You can look for a local shop that's comfortable working on your boat too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gravyleg pirate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2020 at 11:40pm
Wow! That's a lot of detail I hadn't planned on. Called our local Nautique dealership and had a good chat. Will call around to a couple other places to see if they can do an engine install if I go with the ATK option.

Dealership did have some good deals on newer ones though.... for a price!

Thanks everyone!
GLP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2020 at 1:56am
A 2000 block is a Vortec Design and it is very popular and cheap to rebuild. I see no reason to replace your 305/5.0L with another. A switch to the 350/ 5.7L would be my first choice.
As Ken mentioned most parts will work with both blocks.
Since yours is a Vortec design you will need to stay with Vortec heads on the new engine.
A vortec engine uses a unique intake manifold and it bolts up differently than the older 350 or 305 engines.   I do not know if GM used a specific head for the 305 Vortec engines.   If the head is the standard Vortec head and compatible with the 305 and 350 you could just buy a replacement short block and use all your parts to get it running again with a 305 or a 350.   The 350 Vortec would be a nice upgrade, probably 35 more horsepower and 30-50 pounds more torque.   A short block could be had for around $1000, if you want a Long Block would only be 300-500 more. I think these are reasonable estimates you could probably beat with some shoping.
Short BLock = Rebuilt block only, with no heads on it
Long Block = Rebuilt block with rebuilt heads and valve train.
Find out about Core charges in advance, they may claim your broken block has zero core value and charge as much as $250 core charge or they may sell the short block or long block outright with no core needed but you need to know before you order.

Some shops include the Tin on a long block some do not, you need to know before you spend any money.
Tin would include, Timing Cover, Oil Pan and Valve Covers.   You can use your Tin of course off your used and broken engine but it would need to be cleaned before being used on your new engine.
The install is where you will bump into some expensive numbers.   I bet a shop will want 10-15 hours to pull your engine, swap parts and put it back in and get it running for you.
This should include an actual start up and cam break in, unless they use a roller cam which has been optional since about 1986 in the GM blocks. Roller Camshafts do not need a break in.
Shop labor varies around the country from $75-$150 per hour. Do it now while all the shops are slow you might get a good price break and get it back quickly.
Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2020 at 8:16am
The issue with going to a 350 from a 305 is the locked EFI tune... it’s highly probable that it wouldn’t play nicely with the larger displacement. If it was carb, it’d be a no brainer. I’d be collecting info on that TBI system to see how flexible it might be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2020 at 9:02am
Well at least Tim knows why I linked a 305 roller block from ATK and not a 350

And a little reading about the ATK VMM2 let's you know the tin comes with it.

And you'll find out too that there's no core charge on their marine stuff and I might as well mention no shipping charge either.

Here's the link one more time

Like I said there are other outfits, this is just an example of a place I'm familiar with.

link
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