mustang #1 pictures |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Gary, I can't find my 1&1/4"OD by 1" ID plastic bushing I use to line up struts with the hull hole and log! It must be buried someplace in the garage. (I need to get Buffalo Greg to come in and clean up my shop/garage for me.) I did find my forstner bit extension and plastic bushing which just has a 3/4" bore instead of the 1". I use it on wood boat bottom jobs when I need to bore a hole in new wood. The strut is bolted down parallel fore and aft and then the new hole is bored using the strut as a guide.
When lining up the strut to the hull hole with a solid bushing and the prop shaft, it takes all the guess work out from the shaft flopping around in the soft rubber cutlass bearing. Forstner extension and bushing: |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Sorry Tim. I was going to answer and forgot. It's a good question. I have heard a couple people that did have some problems with the 4200. They were adhesion problems and when you loose that, then you have a potential leak. I think there were some complaints about the curing time (the only bad thing !) with the 5200 so 3M came out with the faster cure 4200 sacrificing the strength and adhesion. It still sticks pretty good so if you are going to have a removal challenge then I would go for the higher strength and better adhesion of the 5200. While we are talking strength, I had the Lord adhesive people in on a project the other day. I'm using a acrylic for bonding metal and wanted to go to a shorter cure time. I was told that strength is less on acrylics, epoxies and even polyurethanes with shortened cures. So, if you are at the hardware looking at one of those 5 minute epoxies, consider the hour long type for strength if you can live with the longer cure. |
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behindpropeller
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2006 Status: Offline Points: 1810 |
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Might want to look into Sikaflex instead of the 5200, FYI.
Tim |
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Pete,thanks for the tips. I like your forstner bit extension. Question,are you saying that I can bush the through hull hole to 1" and use the prop shaft to align the strut? I had no idea that hole was that accurate. If that's right,I like it. I will use 5200 to seat and seal the strut and rudder. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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No, it's the other way around! Bush the strut (just like my bit extension) and use the prop shaft to align the strut it the center of the hull hole/shaft log. Tim, why Sikaflex over 5200? I have nothing against the Sikaflex but it sounds like you have some info on it. Better? Why? |
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behindpropeller
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2006 Status: Offline Points: 1810 |
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Sikaflex is just another option. I know their engineer is much easier to get in touch with than anybody at 3M. I have used Sikaflex: Lead to fiberglass steel to fiberglass aluminum to aluminum on aircraft floats. Regardless of what you use, use alcohol to clean up your tools, etc. Tim |
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Pete, am I just eyeballing the shaft through the hull hole? Please hang in there,I'm almost out of questions(on this subject anyway) Thanks, Farmer |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Eyeball but close is fine though the hole and the shaft log. You have the short section of rubber hose between the log and the packing gland for minor alignment.
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Okay Pete,thanks. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Ha! Now there's a good one...and you better check my pockets and the back of my truck at the end of the day?!!? And I'd like to know what else was going through your head when you wrote that...or maybe not. LOL I've had some experience with 5200 and 4200. I was planning to use 5200 on everything but the strut. Now I have more to think about. |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Guys, I was also planning on using 4200 on my strut. (actually already bought it) I checked 3M web page & the main difference between 5200 & 4200 is that 4200 has 1/2 of the tensile strength of 5200. Well, I figured that with the strut clamped mechanically that there was essentially no load on the sealant. Is there any factor (like maybe prop wash) that I am missing?
Chris |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Greg, What was going through my mind was that you are certainly a lot neater than I am! Every picture you post of your garage/shop looks like you just washed the floor! I do try but may not be obsessed enough about it! It is rare that a strut has to be removed from a boat so I would just go with the 5200 and get the better adhesive qualities. In the older wood boats (even some fiberglass), before the polyurethane adhesive/sealants, I have actually seen the struts come in loose. With that big block, you will be pushing a lot more HP out the tail end than the old boats did! Like I do, worry about removal later. Trust me (I know how you have a tendency to worry and fret) with a little heat or a hot wire, it's not hard. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Pete, thanks but it's not that clean. I did the floor epoxy in the room where the pumpkin is only 2 years ago. It's a great floor covering...hit it with a swiffer and done! Otherwise, I just shove the junk out of the way. I have 3 workbeches covered in projects?!!? LOL I was wondering about your table saw set-up and the red jig? on the left. Got a bigger pic? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Greg, That's the Freud micrometer adjust router fence for my router lift. The Freud come with a cheap MDF and melamine fence so I modified it with the T slot aluminum. Great for feather boards.
The end of a table saw extension table is a great place for a router lift. Out of the way and very stable. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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I've seen those and similar in the magazines but haven't used one. My router table is my version of the first one Norm built on his show. Because it's made of wood, it's fully adjustable?!!?
Nice set-up though. I've wanted an extension on my saw for some time. Someday... |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Greg, This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about you being the clean and neat person. You get a swiffer out to dust the floor! In my case, my floor is lucky when I get the fancy horse hair broom out. It's usually the "street" broom and that may be every couple of months. The only exception with my method is when I'm planning on doing some varnishing! |
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p/allen
Gold Member Joined: March-14-2006 Location: Dixon Illinois Status: Offline Points: 942 |
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Pete You just need to get a leaf blower and open the door . It works great .
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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The swiffer is for the interior room where the pumkin is, but I use Pat's meathod in the shop! Amy won't let me use the blower in the house... |
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Believe it or not, I'm finally getting the mustang painted tomorrow.My buddy has a body shop so we're doing it there.It's going to be base coat clear coat on the sides with a white non-ablative bottom paint for below the waterline. It's an epoxy bottom paint in white with teflon. Supposed to be good for trailered power boats.I'll post some pictures tomorrow.
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Watch your fingers.
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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My prep work left a lot to be desired but at least it's white again.We were supposed to do a white hard epoxy bottom paint in the booth but I found out tonight that because of the teflon in the paint,the booth is out. He said it will contaminate the booth and equipment that we use. So now it's my garage if I can get enough room in there to maneuver. By the way,the pictures make it look better than in person. I'm hoping the lettering and stripes will hide some of the wavy spots. |
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Watch your fingers.
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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We finished the last coat of bottom paint this morning. It was a tight fit in my garage with my flatbed trailer but it's done. I know many of you don't like bottom paint but I felt I needed the added security against blistering the bottom again, This epoxy bottom with the hard bottom paint should stay good for a lomg time to come. I should be ready to flip it back over next weekend. I have to hunt down the parts to my "one man boat flipping setup" during the week. Farmer |
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Watch your fingers.
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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I'm surprised no one has anything to say about my choice of finish for this hull. Anyway, I'll be flipping it back right side up tomorrow if it's not raining too hard.I can't believe it's taken this long!!I really need to get my act together and do this.Next step is to replace the stringers and floor. I'm going to try something a little different with the stringers but I'll wait until I get some pictures before I share. |
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Watch your fingers.
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Well I finally got around to the stringers on this boat.A couple of things have me confused.I cut just the top of the fiberglass encasing the stringers expecting to have to dig out the wood.But when it was all removed,the stringers lifted out in one piece.Is that right?I thought they were fiberglassed in and attached to the hull.I don't know if they were replaced before.
I also was looking for the post about the proper orientation of the grain in the stringers.If these were replaced at one time they may not have the grain running the right way. Here are some pictures. They look original to me but I don't know for sure.I also noticed that the angle on the bottom of the sringers remained constant even though the angle of the hull flattens out at the back near the transom. Gary |
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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OK.Got the grain direction but still don't know about the angle and attachment to the hull. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Nope, that won't work! As I have learned from this site, a big part of using d fir is for the adhesion. My old stringers had to be scraped to be burned. The old glass was still stuck on good after 20 years...even in the rotten spots! |
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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so I guess this was the result of a poor repair at some point.There were no stress cracks evident when I did the hull bottom but I didn't think the stringers should have been floating inside the fiberglass either.
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Watch your fingers.
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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I am going to say that I do not think adhesion between the wood and fiberglass is all that important. Here's why:
The wood stringer serves two main purposes: 1. Solid mount for the engine. 2. Form for the fiberglass surrounding the stringers. It is the fiberglass around the stringers that provides the rigidity for the hull. This is evident in all the boats running around with rotten stringers...without hull failure. I will even go so far as to say you do not even need the stringers or fiberglass around the stringers for hull integrity. But, the hull would then oil can terribly and you would get stress fractures eventually. So, IMHO do not worry about adhesion. But in the photos above, I certainly would remove all the old fiberglass that was around the stringers and start new from the hull up. Don't worry too much about evenly the wood stringer rests on the hull, you can always fill the voids with thickened epoxy (epoxy resin and saw dust works well). Shoot getting the stringers out in one piece like you did means you had a few years left |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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David,
I have to agree with Greg on the glass needing to be bonded to the wood stringers. Yes, the glass surrounding the wood gives the hull rigidity but this glass being a thin cross section needs to maitained in the vertical position. The wood does this besides adding to the rididity of the hull. If the glass isn't kept in the vertical and allowed to fold then all it's strength is lost. It's like a wood roof truss - if the purlins don't maintain the truss in the vertical plane then it folds and collapses. Gary, I think somewhere in the life of your Mustang, a PO did a quick and dirty repair!! |
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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It won't fold or collapse. The wood is there is resist in one direction or the other and the sides are connected together topa and bottom. Again, the hull does not even need the stringers for rigidity along its length as the sides of the hull prevent bending. So, no real bending flexing loads on the stringers anyway. Think about it, have you ever heard of a boat bending or breaking in half due to rotten stringers...I bet you have not. And certainly, the fiberglass is not bonded to rotton stringers. Aint gonna happen.
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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David, please don't take this the wrong way because I've learned a good bit from your posts. I will say that I had to use a hammer and cold chisel to get the old glass off of my old stringers. They were rotten in places and only wet in others. The other thing I can say is that since I did my stringer job, the boat doesn't sit on the trailer like a heavy wet sponge. It's pretty darn rigid and the ride is evident. To compare, I'd use an old used car with a rattling dash board and doors that don't close right. The ride I have now is stong and sure if that makes sense. |
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