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No spark when cranking, spark when OFF

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    Posted: February-22-2007 at 11:22am
So we were riding a couple weeks ago and we were coming back into the dock to pick up another rider, doing about 25 mph. Let off the throttle and the motor died. Could not get it started for the life of me, so we put it on the trailer. At the time i pumped the throttle and saw fuel coming into the carb, not the problem im guessing. So i tried pulling the coil wire and checking for spark. When i cranked the motor i had no spark, but as soon as i turned the key to OFF a spark jumped. Need suggestions
96 Camaro SS #1157
84 Ski Nautique, fat sacks, fly high pole
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2007 at 11:36am
points or electronic ignition? what year boat and motor?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2007 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

points or electronic ignition? what year boat and motor?
I believe it's electronic, it had a mallory ignition on it when i bought it, boat is 84 and i a$$ume the motor is the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2007 at 2:54pm
Here's a pic of the distributor, it has part number 3755401, it's electronic obviously from the pic...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2007 at 3:03pm
I would look at replacing the module in the dist or it might be the coil as well If you have access to a spare coil give it a shot first and if that doesn't change anyhting then get a new module/pick-up a$$embly for the distributor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2007 at 5:30pm
I also noticed that my ignition resistor is pretty rusty, this thing that is attached at the back of the motor. http://skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RP119001

Im going to try and take the wires off and clean the connections to see if that helps at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-22-2007 at 6:51pm
you'll need to get a new one if it's bad you don't want to run that dist without it for very long otherwise you will be buying another new module a$$embly for it. It's fine to test it by by-pa$$ing it, but replace it beofre you go skiing or for a cruise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2007 at 2:12pm
I got a new ignition switch and it didnt fix the problem. Still no spark when cranking the motor, but a spark jumps as soon as i shut the key off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2007 at 2:20pm
Break out the voltmeter. Check and make sure you have 12V to the (+) terminal of the coil with the key on and when cranking. If you do, then like '79 said, Id suspect either the coil or ignition module is the culprit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2007 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Break out the voltmeter. Check and make sure you have 12V to the (+) terminal of the coil with the key on and when cranking. If you do, then like '79 said, Id suspect either the coil or ignition module is the culprit.
Going to check right now, thanks
96 Camaro SS #1157
84 Ski Nautique, fat sacks, fly high pole
06 LF Fish 125
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2007 at 2:49pm
This is the coil that i have, on the post that's closest to you in the picture i have 1.3 volts with key on and the same when cranking. On the post further away I have 3.4 volts on and the same with cranking.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2007 at 2:50pm
Get one of those circuit testers (screwdriver with light inside) and put it on the negative side of the coil and ground the aligator clip. Crank the motor, if the light blinks, then the distributor is breaking fire, if it doesn't the problem is inside the cap, probably the ignition module.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2007 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Tim D Tim D wrote:

Get one of those circuit testers (screwdriver with light inside) and put it on the negative side of the coil and ground the aligator clip. Crank the motor, if the light blinks, then the distributor is breaking fire, if it doesn't the problem is inside the cap, probably the ignition module.
Arent the voltage readings to the coil very low also? I thought it was supposed to be 12 volts... and why is there power to both sides of the coil?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2007 at 3:09pm
Ok, i just did the light test, when i attached it to either post on the coil i got a solid dim light when cranking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2007 at 5:42pm
Did it blink/pulse?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2007 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Tim D Tim D wrote:

Did it blink/pulse?
nope, i just said it was a solid dim light
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2007 at 11:04pm
Well the distributor isn't breaking fire. Replace the module inside the cap. Mine died last summer, it had a small burnt crack on it. My cap had cracked and I didn't know it and a power surge or arc killed the module from cranking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-26-2007 at 6:36am
I believe most any 'igniter' module firing that coil will see too much current and fail prematurely; lucky if you get a season or two out of one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-26-2007 at 7:43am
Originally posted by GottaSki GottaSki wrote:

I believe most any 'igniter' module firing that coil will see too much current and fail prematurely; lucky if you get a season or two out of one.


My boat had a MSD Blaster II coil running in conjunction with a Prestolite EI conversion when I bought it. It had run fine for years, but naturally the module quit my 1st time out in the boat- so its probably better to not use a high output coil.

However, shouldnt the coil be seeing 9-12V on the (+) terminal with the key on/cranking, regardless of the condition of the EI module?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-26-2007 at 9:24am
The mallory tech told me for what ever reason the Blaster II coils burn up the electronics in the mallory units. There's nothing wrong with the promaster series coil he has other than it's an automotive grade unit, paul uses the same unit on his 62, and I have a marine version of the same thing as well. As long as the dist is wired correctly and the leads wheren't shortened to do it the coil will be fine. It looks like an older Dist anyway and age just took it's toll most likely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2007 at 9:24am
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

The mallory tech told me for what ever reason the Blaster II coils burn up the electronics in the mallory units. There's nothing wrong with the promaster series coil he has other than it's an automotive grade unit, paul uses the same unit on his 62, and I have a marine version of the same thing as well. As long as the dist is wired correctly and the leads wheren't shortened to do it the coil will be fine. It looks like an older Dist anyway and age just took it's toll most likely.
Im going to get a new module, do you think it's time to do the coil, cap/rotor also?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2007 at 9:31am
Oh man, i just found this site, by going by the diagnostics test it seems that the module was burned out by high amperage, probably my rusty ballast. http://www.centuryperformance.com/mallory/unitest.asp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2007 at 9:44am
cap, rotor, ballast resistor and maybe plugs and wires, the coil is fine leave it alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2007 at 12:23pm
installed the ignition module and new ballast, STILL not sparking when cranking, but it still sparks when i shut the key off
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2007 at 12:25pm
you sure you have it wired correctly. purple to the pos term gray to neg? how many leads do you have coming from the dstrributor? and where are they connected
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2007 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

you sure you have it wired correctly. purple to the pos term gray to neg? how many leads do you have coming from the dstrributor? and where are they connected

Yea, i have terrible news. I did the test on the module again to make sure it was working by measuring the voltage to the - side of the coil and breaking the beam of the module with a credit card, everything checked out fine. I was like hmm, if i break the beam when with the card and voltage drops how come the ring on the rotor isnt breaking the beam. So i tried turning it over with the cap off, rotor doesnt move at all . So my next step was to pull the distributor out to check and see if the gear was still attached, yeap attached fine. Put a screwdriver against the cam gear to see if it was spinning, no go. So i guess i broke the timing chain, i hope it didnt f**k any valves up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2007 at 5:15pm
you would have heard it if a piston slaped a valve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2007 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

you would have heard it if a piston slaped a valve.
music was on too, i guess ill find out when i get it running, can i just go to advanced auto and get a chain/gasket for a 84 351, or does it have to be a marine one b/c of the reverse rotation??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2007 at 5:54pm
shouldn't make a difference, just be carefull getting the #1 cyclinder on top dead center so you don't bend a valve, if you haven't all ready.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannabeSS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2007 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

shouldn't make a difference, just be carefull getting the #1 cyclinder on top dead center so you don't bend a valve, if you haven't all ready.
shouldnt it just be lining up the dots like a sbc? i built the 383 sbc in my camaro, so im not scared by a timing chain, but i've never done one on a ford before.
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