I have bit the Bullet! |
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Posted: March-02-2007 at 2:37pm |
I decided to bite the Bullet and upgrade my cam and head package. I was planning on changing my cam with a new Cam Research cam here in a few weeks although I have been itching for a higher performance set of heads for a while now. So I ordered the new cam, roller rockers, double billet roller timing chain, new lifters, and a set of AFR aluminum heads specifically CNC ported for low end torque/marine ski boat applications. Should have everything by March 16th. It has been about 10 years since I did a cam swap so I will probably be back here looking for a few tips. I am very curious to see what type of performance I get with these heads. Cam research is actually going to custom grind this cam with a little different specs from the original cam they recommended due to the exhaust flow of the AFR heads being so good they will be dropping the exhaust lift down a little so it does not hurt my low end. I stressed that my low end has to be awesome with top speed being secondary. We shall see...
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"That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!"
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21131 |
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Jeff, you stole my idea! Which AFR's are you going with, 185's? Im sure they will scream. Did you get the water passages anodized? I assume you went with the heads that are machined for stud mount rockers?
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3335 |
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Wow, but if you are going custom, why not go roller cam?
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21131 |
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Cam Research will build a cam to any spec you want- I got the impression that pretty much all their cams are custom. Roller would be nice, but then you get into the added expense of machining the block or adding $$$ tie-bar lifters.
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5695 |
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There's that price of poker going up again....
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Roller roller roller ... cant say it enough, boat engines need rollers
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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87BFN owner
Grand Poobah Joined: August-25-2006 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 2194 |
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JR_Vic let us know how the alum heads work and what you did to them if anything for a boat application.
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Honestly I talked to them about a roller cam last winter but it seems as though from what I remember it was going to be more work than I wanted to bite off at the present time as well as cost/benefit factor. As TRBenj mentioned above there was some extra work on either the block and/or the tie bar lifters that were pricey. Cam research was not knocking the roller cam at all but they really were not pushing it either on this application to be honest. I was also stretching my budget for this project but I was open to there suggestions. Cam research strongly advised me if I had to cut any part of this project out to cut out roller lifters/roller cam and roller rockers if I had too but get the good heads up front. These heads could grow into a 408 c.i. stroker if necassary with minimal work and be great. I was considering a less expensive head with roller lifters/cam/rockers at one point but again they advised to cut the roller lifters/cam and get roller rockers if I could swing it and the AFR heads would never out grow a 351W for this particular application. So I got everything they recommended except the roller cam but the engine has 680 hours so probably what I'll do is in the future when I rebuild the engine I will look at a roller cam/lifters and maybe a larger bore which will probably be way out in the future (hopefully). |
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"That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!"
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p/allen
Gold Member Joined: March-14-2006 Location: Dixon Illinois Status: Offline Points: 942 |
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what the heck does That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!" mean
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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It is kind of an inside joke...it's from a Rap song meaning that he is not holding a Snow Cone that is round with all of the ice crystals shining but a very large diamond ring on his finger with lots of Bling. |
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"That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!"
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3335 |
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Cool, now we expect a full report, of course.
I was thinking you could safely run a much steeper approach angle with the roller and gain some performance that way, and make the engine less oil grade-sensitive. Now you are approaching the price of the Kaase canted valve heads..Are those ports too big for the low-end you are after? What is the port volume of your selection from AFR? Are you switching to closed-circuit cooling? Are you considering a zinc anode in the water jacket to reduce galvanic corrosion? |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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JR vic, i just like spending other peoples money,
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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reidp
Platinum Member Joined: December-06-2003 Location: Mooresville, NC Status: Offline Points: 1804 |
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After reading this thread, I sense that my wife is not going to be very happy with me. Thanks a lot guys. (stargasimicly spoken)(sic)
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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I'm with you...in the back of my mind now I am wondering if I am going to be your customer. I need to look at my notes but with the current engine combination I am running it will probably be close or slightly above the 400 H.P. mark. Are the 1.23 transmissions still reliable at that HP rating? |
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"That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!"
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21131 |
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With the AFR's that may be pretty close to 400. I would think you'll be ok with the 1.23, as it was used on the 425+hp Python boats in 99-01. |
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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there's that word again. I think it ought to be copyrighted. |
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Mullet Free since 93
95 Sport |
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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I went with the 185's after some pursuasion thinking they may be too large but again I am not a tech so I tried to listen and learn. Cam research states it is the type of porting they do which affects low end response much more than just the size of the intake runners. They stated they have ported 178cc Ford heads in a way that resulted in less velocity compared to the 185's. We shall see...I did not get the water passages anodized but I am going to ask them about that on Monday again and see what they say but if I remember correctly they stated that if I am truly in fresh water meaning not brackish I should be fine. These heads are machined for stud mount rockers. |
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"That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!"
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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to just anodize the water passages is a major hassel since you would have to mask everything else off except the water jacket, not very practical. Anodizing is basicly dipping them in to an acid solution and the amount of masking would be just too much to do
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21131 |
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AFR offers anodizing on the water passages and outside surface of the heads for $189. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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See it's more than just the passage that gets anodized anyway.
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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I'll inquire again about the anodizing on Monday and let you know what I find out.
Thanks! |
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"That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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JR, they put them behind 502's, I get alot of calls regarding can my transmission handle the horsepower... in theory all the horsepower is absorbed at the prop so if you had a 13x 13 with 200 horsepower in front of it you could actually put 10000 horsepower in front of that same prop and you would see no change in speed. in your case JR if your not re-propping the transmission will not notice the extra horsepower, you wont twist shafts or break shafts or anything like that.
Its when you start thinking my boat does 46 and i want it to go 66 and thats when the horsepower starts to matter because now you put a prop on the boat that requires lets say 350 horsepower to turn the new prop to achieve that 66 mph |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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I contacted Cam Research and they can special the anodized heads but they have never sold a set nor do they keep them in stock. They do have a special coating they can apply to the inside of the heads so I went ahead and paid for that upgrade. If I am spending this much I might as well do it right. Should have everything next week.
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"That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!"
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Update on the project. Here are a few pics...
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"That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!"
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nuttyskier2002
Gold Member Joined: September-28-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 669 |
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Hey, JR - I noticed your pics are from April time frame. You got this thing running yet? What cam did you wind up going with? Don't know if you remember, but you almost bought a set of GT40P heads from me back in January. I finally sold them to a guy in Arkansas along with one of my cams. He wrote back and said he had a big improvement in top speed and RPMs. Hope yours turns out well too. Brian
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95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier
Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Brian,
I remember talking to you. Glad you finally got the heads and cam sold. I ended up going with the AFR aluminum heads and a custom grind Cam Research camshaft with a new billet double timing chain, roller rockers, beefy push rods, AFR head bolts, rocker studs. I should have it running this weekend. It has taken alot longer than I expected due to work, family vacation, minor surgery, etc. There has also been numerous challenges along the way that slowed the process down. I'll have more details after this week end. More pics... Thanks! |
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"That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!"
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nuttyskier2002
Gold Member Joined: September-28-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 669 |
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You have a SWEET buildup there! I know you are very anxious to get it fired up this weekend.
Hey, are those Polk speakers you have mounted in your side panels? If not they look very similar. Great quality and sound. I just got my tower mounted last weekend and am getting a set of Polk Momo 6x9's and a pair of fiberglass tower mount enclosures for them. Will be under going my engine mods when fall rolls around. My Vortec heads and Weiand intake are ready. I'll be ordering my cam and all the gaskets very soon. Don't forget to take some pics of your maiden voyage. Brian |
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95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier
Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
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Mark Mel
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 583 |
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Those roller rockers look sweet. To bad you have to cover them up with valve covers. Would be nice if they made some clear valve covers.
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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I agree...clear valve covers would be cool. I have a DUI clear distributor cap and it's cool because you can see the rotor spinning and sparks flying around. Clear valve covers would be cool to see the oil splashing and all. Thanks! |
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"That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!"
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Those are Polk Momo's. When we installed them the original hole was too large and my installer made a round plexiglass filler plate that is chrome and it filled in the hole nicely. Here's a pic... |
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"That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!"
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