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I have bit the Bullet!

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JR_VIC View Drop Down
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    Posted: March-02-2007 at 2:37pm
I decided to bite the Bullet and upgrade my cam and head package. I was planning on changing my cam with a new Cam Research cam here in a few weeks although I have been itching for a higher performance set of heads for a while now. So I ordered the new cam, roller rockers, double billet roller timing chain, new lifters, and a set of AFR aluminum heads specifically CNC ported for low end torque/marine ski boat applications. Should have everything by March 16th. It has been about 10 years since I did a cam swap so I will probably be back here looking for a few tips. I am very curious to see what type of performance I get with these heads. Cam research is actually going to custom grind this cam with a little different specs from the original cam they recommended due to the exhaust flow of the AFR heads being so good they will be dropping the exhaust lift down a little so it does not hurt my low end. I stressed that my low end has to be awesome with top speed being secondary. We shall see...   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 2:42pm
Jeff, you stole my idea! Which AFR's are you going with, 185's? Im sure they will scream. Did you get the water passages anodized? I assume you went with the heads that are machined for stud mount rockers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 3:02pm
Wow, but if you are going custom, why not go roller cam?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 3:28pm
Cam Research will build a cam to any spec you want- I got the impression that pretty much all their cams are custom. Roller would be nice, but then you get into the added expense of machining the block or adding $$$ tie-bar lifters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 4:07pm
There's that price of poker going up again....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 7:09pm
Roller roller roller ... cant say it enough, boat engines need rollers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 9:27pm
JR_Vic let us know how the alum heads work and what you did to them if anything for a boat application.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR_VIC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by GottaSki GottaSki wrote:

Wow, but if you are going custom, why not go roller cam?


Honestly I talked to them about a roller cam last winter but it seems as though from what I remember it was going to be more work than I wanted to bite off at the present time as well as cost/benefit factor. As TRBenj mentioned above there was some extra work on either the block and/or the tie bar lifters that were pricey. Cam research was not knocking the roller cam at all but they really were not pushing it either on this application to be honest. I was also stretching my budget for this project but I was open to there suggestions. Cam research strongly advised me if I had to cut any part of this project out to cut out roller lifters/roller cam and roller rockers if I had too but get the good heads up front. These heads could grow into a 408 c.i. stroker if necassary with minimal work and be great. I was considering a less expensive head with roller lifters/cam/rockers at one point but again they advised to cut the roller lifters/cam and get roller rockers if I could swing it and the AFR heads would never out grow a 351W for this particular application. So I got everything they recommended except the roller cam but the engine has 680 hours so probably what I'll do is in the future when I rebuild the engine I will look at a roller cam/lifters and maybe a larger bore which will probably be way out in the future (hopefully).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p/allen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2007 at 11:49pm
what the heck does That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!" mean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR_VIC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2007 at 12:19am
Originally posted by p/allen p/allen wrote:

what the heck does That's not a Snow Cone that's my Ring!" mean


It is kind of an inside joke...it's from a Rap song meaning that he is not holding a Snow Cone that is round with all of the ice crystals shining but a very large diamond ring on his finger with lots of Bling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2007 at 8:00am
Cool, now we expect a full report, of course.

I was thinking you could safely run a much steeper approach angle with the roller and gain some performance that way, and make the engine less oil grade-sensitive.

Now you are approaching the price of the Kaase canted valve heads..Are those ports too big for the low-end you are after? What is the port volume of your selection from AFR?

Are you switching to closed-circuit cooling?

Are you considering a zinc anode in the water jacket to reduce galvanic corrosion?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2007 at 8:16am
JR vic, i just like spending other peoples money,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reidp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2007 at 11:48am
After reading this thread, I sense that my wife is not going to be very happy with me. Thanks a lot guys. (stargasimicly spoken)(sic)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR_VIC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2007 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

JR vic, i just like spending other peoples money,


I'm with you...in the back of my mind now I am wondering if I am going to be your customer. I need to look at my notes but with the current engine combination I am running it will probably be close or slightly above the 400 H.P. mark. Are the 1.23 transmissions still reliable at that HP rating?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2007 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by JR_VIC JR_VIC wrote:

it will probably be close or slightly above the 400 H.P. mark. Are the 1.23 transmissions still reliable at that HP rating?


With the AFR's that may be pretty close to 400. I would think you'll be ok with the 1.23, as it was used on the 425+hp Python boats in 99-01.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2007 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by reidp reidp wrote:

After reading this thread, I sense that my wife is not going to be very happy with me. Thanks a lot guys. (stargasimicly spoken)(sic)


there's that word again. I think it ought to be copyrighted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR_VIC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-03-2007 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Jeff, you stole my idea! Which AFR's are you going with, 185's? Im sure they will scream. Did you get the water passages anodized? I assume you went with the heads that are machined for stud mount rockers?


I went with the 185's after some pursuasion thinking they may be too large but again I am not a tech so I tried to listen and learn. Cam research states it is the type of porting they do which affects low end response much more than just the size of the intake runners. They stated they have ported 178cc Ford heads in a way that resulted in less velocity compared to the 185's. We shall see...I did not get the water passages anodized but I am going to ask them about that on Monday again and see what they say but if I remember correctly they stated that if I am truly in fresh water meaning not brackish I should be fine. These heads are machined for stud mount rockers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-04-2007 at 9:24am
to just anodize the water passages is a major hassel since you would have to mask everything else off except the water jacket, not very practical. Anodizing is basicly dipping them in to an acid solution and the amount of masking would be just too much to do
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-04-2007 at 9:29am
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

to just anodize the water passages is a major hassel since you would have to mask everything else off except the water jacket, not very practical. Anodizing is basicly dipping them in to an acid solution and the amount of masking would be just too much to do


AFR offers anodizing on the water passages and outside surface of the heads for $189.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-04-2007 at 9:31am
See it's more than just the passage that gets anodized anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR_VIC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-04-2007 at 10:22am
I'll inquire again about the anodizing on Monday and let you know what I find out.

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-04-2007 at 2:29pm
JR, they put them behind 502's, I get alot of calls regarding can my transmission handle the horsepower... in theory all the horsepower is absorbed at the prop so if you had a 13x 13 with 200 horsepower in front of it you could actually put 10000 horsepower in front of that same prop and you would see no change in speed. in your case JR if your not re-propping the transmission will not notice the extra horsepower, you wont twist shafts or break shafts or anything like that.
Its when you start thinking my boat does
46 and i want it to go 66 and thats when the horsepower starts to matter because now you put a prop on the boat that requires lets say 350 horsepower to turn the new prop to achieve that 66 mph
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR_VIC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2007 at 10:43am
I contacted Cam Research and they can special the anodized heads but they have never sold a set nor do they keep them in stock. They do have a special coating they can apply to the inside of the heads so I went ahead and paid for that upgrade. If I am spending this much I might as well do it right. Should have everything next week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR_VIC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2007 at 11:24pm
Update on the project. Here are a few pics...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttyskier2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2007 at 3:41am
Hey, JR - I noticed your pics are from April time frame. You got this thing running yet? What cam did you wind up going with? Don't know if you remember, but you almost bought a set of GT40P heads from me back in January. I finally sold them to a guy in Arkansas along with one of my cams. He wrote back and said he had a big improvement in top speed and RPMs. Hope yours turns out well too. Brian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR_VIC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2007 at 8:54pm
Brian,

I remember talking to you. Glad you finally got the heads and cam sold. I ended up going with the AFR aluminum heads and a custom grind Cam Research camshaft with a new billet double timing chain, roller rockers, beefy push rods, AFR head bolts, rocker studs. I should have it running this weekend. It has taken alot longer than I expected due to work, family vacation, minor surgery, etc. There has also been numerous challenges along the way that slowed the process down. I'll have more details after this week end. More pics...

Thanks!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttyskier2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2007 at 1:20am
You have a SWEET buildup there! I know you are very anxious to get it fired up this weekend.

Hey, are those Polk speakers you have mounted in your side panels? If not they look very similar. Great quality and sound. I just got my tower mounted last weekend and am getting a set of Polk Momo
6x9's and a pair of fiberglass tower mount enclosures for them.

Will be under going my engine mods when fall rolls around. My Vortec heads and Weiand intake are ready. I'll be ordering my cam and all the gaskets very soon.

Don't forget to take some pics of your maiden voyage. Brian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2007 at 11:37am
Those roller rockers look sweet. To bad you have to cover them up with valve covers. Would be nice if they made some clear valve covers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR_VIC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2007 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by Mark Mel Mark Mel wrote:

Those roller rockers look sweet. To bad you have to cover them up with valve covers. Would be nice if they made some clear valve covers.


I agree...clear valve covers would be cool. I have a DUI clear distributor cap and it's cool because you can see the rotor spinning and sparks flying around. Clear valve covers would be cool to see the oil splashing and all.

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JR_VIC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2007 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by nuttyskier2002 nuttyskier2002 wrote:

You have a SWEET buildup there! I know you are very anxious to get it fired up this weekend.

Hey, are those Polk speakers you have mounted in your side panels? If not they look very similar. Great quality and sound. I just got my tower mounted last weekend and am getting a set of Polk Momo
6x9's and a pair of fiberglass tower mount enclosures for them.

Will be under going my engine mods when fall rolls around. My Vortec heads and Weiand intake are ready. I'll be ordering my cam and all the gaskets very soon.

Don't forget to take some pics of your maiden voyage. Brian


Those are Polk Momo's. When we installed them the original hole was too large and my installer made a round plexiglass filler plate that is chrome and it filled in the hole nicely. Here's a pic...

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