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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2008 at 10:41pm
were not talking about airplane props here,
the impact's hammering action will remove the prop, with one inch shafts you will see guy's putting blocks of wood between the hull and the prop trying with all they have to get the prop off, a pipe wrench on thre shaft is anpther good one and these are the things that they shouldnt be doing. Most boats including the ones with 1 inch shafts will come off easily....its the ones that have been on there for a few years that have never been off that you hit with an impact, im not one to stand around and ponder, i got a job to do and the impact falls within those guidelines when i cant get a prop off
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2008 at 11:48pm
well if your not skilled enough to ring the taper then torque it down some more off centered so that you interduce a side load, but then maybe you don't understand simply physics and force diagrams. And I all so guess they are not smart enough to know how to position the wrench so that the prop doesn't spin either, so if your too damn dumb to know either of those then by all means screw it up with the impact.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2008 at 8:23am
At last i have seperated the coupling.
She is way off!! about 1cm to port!!
How can i be sure that the "new" alignment is right? how can i centre the shaft without lazer or trying to look up the shaft via the prop view?? You refere a lot to "propping up the shaft", what is your point of referance?
Feels great to see i have made some progress.Also, is there a bearing in the stuffing box, if not i assume that goes where the shaft goes eh?
Thanks
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2008 at 9:18am
Originally posted by saffer saffer wrote:

At last i have seperated the coupling.
She is way off!! about 1cm to port!!
You refere a lot to "propping up the shaft", what is your point of referance?
Also, is there a bearing in the stuffing box, if not i assume that goes where the shaft goes eh?
Thanks


The reference to propping up the shaft is to take the weight of the foreward end off it to keep it from dropping down. You can use a wood "V" block clamped in a way that you can adjust it. I recommend taking any side loading of the stuffing box off by removing the small section of rubber hose and moving it slightly forward. What you want to try to do, is see how concentric the shaft is to the bore in the rubber cutlass bearing/strut. This will be by feeling how easy the shaft rotates. The easier it turns, the better. When you get the shaft to that point, you will then align the engine to it. Side to side and up and down is a visual to make sure the shaft doesn't move when you put the coupling halves together.

A lazer sure would be nice but I don't know of a set up that would work. They are used on shafts but not in such a confined space.

There isn't a bearing in the shaft log/stuffing box. Once you slide the stuffing box forward you will see.

Since the alignment was off quite a bit, you will want to make sure that the prop shaft OD and it's couplings ID hasn't fretted (worn) and is still tight. Keep in mind that this is a press fit and if worn, can't be fixed by just tightening up the set screws. Hopefully the trans will be OK.


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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2008 at 10:27am
saffer, if your saying it was out that far, and has probably been for a while it just may be worth pulling the coupling as discussed and also doing a runout check on the shaft, the shaft was under alot of force, how many hours? they say the maintanance life of shaft is 500 hours but lets face it no one changes thier shafts at 500 hours. did you currently feel vibrations when you ran the boat? that may have been shaft whip and over time will degrade the shaft. also spin the output of the trans and feel for any roughness, when the alignment is this far out it loads the rear bearing and cocks the planetary, hopefully you wont find damage cause your far far away, you may have caught it in time, the worse case of mis-alignment i seen and i sent the guy a replacement trans before i got his back was the 6 planet gears were missing every single tooth and the case was wore about an 1/8', all the bushings were spun and it was a mess and it still sits on my shelf today the way i got it back, the trans is useless but acts as a good show piece to show damage, i will snap a shot of it one of these days
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2008 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Since the alignment was off quite a bit, you will want to make sure that the prop shaft OD and it's couplings ID hasn't fretted (worn) and is still tight. Keep in mind that this is a press fit and if worn, can't be fixed by just tightening up the set screws. Hopefully the trans will be OK.


How is the coupling pressed onto the shaft? I would imagine on a bench but then how does it get in the boat...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2008 at 12:35pm
HW, i heat the coupling and slide it right on to the end of the shaft, you only get one chance though, its about a .0005 interferance fit,
thats why some guys prefer the double taper shaft because you can install it and tighten the nut and pull the coupling onto the taper, the only thing is the double taper shafts are pricey.

i will fit the coupling first and put the shaft and coupling in the lathe and take a face cut, this puts it dead on, the remove the coupling and re-install
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2008 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Since the alignment was off quite a bit, you will want to make sure that the prop shaft OD and it's couplings ID hasn't fretted (worn) and is still tight. Keep in mind that this is a press fit and if worn, can't be fixed by just tightening up the set screws. Hopefully the trans will be OK.


How is the coupling pressed onto the shaft? I would imagine on a bench but then how does it get in the boat...


Bag of ice on the shaft and the coupling goes in the oven at 500 degrees. Then it's a mad dash to slide it on with an oven mitt. If you see an imprint of the coupling face burned into my carpet or upholstery, you'll know what happened when I try this in a couple weeks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2008 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by M3Fan M3Fan wrote:

Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Since the alignment was off quite a bit, you will want to make sure that the prop shaft OD and it's couplings ID hasn't fretted (worn) and is still tight. Keep in mind that this is a press fit and if worn, can't be fixed by just tightening up the set screws. Hopefully the trans will be OK.


How is the coupling pressed onto the shaft? I would imagine on a bench but then how does it get in the boat...


Bag of ice on the shaft and the coupling goes in the oven at 500 degrees. Then it's a mad dash to slide it on with an oven mitt. If you see an imprint of the coupling face burned into my carpet or upholstery, you'll know what happened when I try this in a couple weeks.


Or pull the engine if you don't want carpet burns!!!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2008 at 2:22pm
well I never did any of that when I replaced the old one with a new, a lite tap with a brass hammer worked fine, as it's really not a press fit like you think, it's a very tight slip fit actually, .0005" is nothing and if you dig out the drawing's I'm betting there is also that much clearance too built into the tolerance stack-up.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2008 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

.0005" is nothing and if you dig out the drawing's I'm betting there is also that much clearance too built into the tolerance stack-up.


Done correctly they are sold in select fit pairs and there is not enough allowed tolerance for the interferance fit to become either line to line or tight clearance. If yours slides on its too loose.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2008 at 2:45pm
.0005" interferance can almost be done by hand, and since everything was new you didn't need to do any of the stuff you guys suggest. Just my .02 gained from personel expierence and knowledge.
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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2008 at 4:00pm
Walters Machine company makes a clamp on style and also are real nice, they have a split down the middle and slide easily onto the shaft and then you tighten the clamp bolts, they are available thru TMI out of Florida 800-463-8848
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2008 at 10:42am
The Following information was taken from a separate thread by Eric Lavine regarding common transmission failures:

These trannys have 4 basic problems
1. water inside causing complete failure, which is not the case here
2. cracked forward drum, wont cause the problem you have
3. ring gear for reverse plantary comes loose and you completely loose reverse
4. reverse return snap ring land breaks and you get drag in nuetral (most likely if cable is in adjustment)
oil changes will not effect breakage, you really have to watch the forward to reverse shifting on these transmissions, make it a habit to shift into nuetral letting the prop stop and then shift into the other range within the means of being safe, remember the prop is spinning one direction and you nuetral skip and it allows the prop to do a complete 180, i know someone is thinking this is a ski boat and you are suppose to do this....this will add many hours to the transmissions life




this is an example of a cracked forward drum out of a PCM trans, this will be found both in the 1:1 and the 1.23:1, in the 1:1 it can crack from to harsh of a shift or mis-alignment, this is probably the most frequent problem these transmissions have, it can be avoided by making sure the boat is in align and shifting at idle allowing the prop to stop turning and then shifting it into the other range, of course if you hit an object with the prop this also likely will happen to the drum. it basically is the weak link in the transmission.



This is a Borg Warner planetary that was installed into a rebuilt transmission and the customer installed the trans into his boat completely overlooking alignment, i gather the boat would have been out .050 or so and he pulled the coupling halves together with the force of the bolts and never paid attention to the alignment. The transmission case was completely grooved at 12:00 o'clock position. all 6 of the planet gears were rounded as you see in the picture



This drum failed due to water contamination, as you can see the top ring area is broken from pressing the drum out of the case, the hook style ring expands into the groove that wears into the case and then is impossible to remove without breaking, if you notice the bottem ring has clearance on the sides due to the water destroying the lubricating qualities of the oils and causing the rings to sieze in the groove in turn rotating in the case
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