Aluminum Heads? |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Posted: May-17-2007 at 5:15pm |
Ok, I know this is a correct craft website, but I own a nautique 2001. This question is for my dad's malibu response with the hammerhead engine. We run the boat in brackish water and the aluminum heads just corrode away. The first time the heads were leaking water into the oil pan, so we had them welded. Everything was going fine, and then 200 hours later, the heads have corroded once again.
My question is, can we just replace the heads with cast iron. The aluminum replacements cost about $1500 and cast iron is much cheaper. What would be the consequences of doing so. I know the engine and EFI is programmed for the aluminum heads, but what if we got cast iron with similar characteristics. Thanks guys, hopefully some of you can help me out. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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which engine do you have? chevy LS? aluminum block? or were they aftermarket, do you guys flush after use? a little more info is needed.
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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The boat is a 2001 Malibu response lx with the 365hp hammerhead 350 chevy engine. Everything is stock. The block is cast iron, but the heads are the racing aluminum heads. We flush after each use, but the aluminum heads just cant handle the brackish water. The first time we had the problem, heads looked like a sponge from all the pits from corrosion. We had them resurfaced, welded, and resurfaced again. All of the holes were welded pretty good, but I guess it corroded again.
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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That is from the first time. I am assuming once we take the engine apart again, it will look the same.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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three words, closed circuit cooling.
indmar really should have known. Don't bastard the hamerhead, just add the heat exchanger and accessories to run 50/50 coolant. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Yea I know. But the water is barely salt, so we thought flushing would be enough. The block is still in good condition. It is only the heads that corrode.
I plan on adding closed cooling if we can replace with cast iron. If I have to replace with aluminum, we wont be able to afford it. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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there is no reason you cant use cast heads on the cast block, to make sure call the summit tech line,
the set will have to be for the vortech with similar valves, i do not think the computer will notice this type of change and if it does it may recalibrate by itself |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Are you sure Eric. My dad is a firm believer in replacing the EXACT part. He hates watching rednecks modify engines and then destroying them down the line.
My argument to him was 'this is a performance engine with performance parts. By putting cast iron heads, we are actually downgrading the hp. Which means less load on the performance parts built for higher loads. So therefore we will end up with a longer lasting engine.' He still doesn't buy it. He thinks when a company engineers and engine, every part is built specifically for certain specifications and by changing the heads we will screw up the whole engine. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Ok so corrode another set of AL heads or buy some iron ones. What is the problem here? |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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I KNOW!!! That is what I told him. I know we ride in brackish water, and yes we should have fresh water cooling. But we flush after every trip. And the block in still in great condition. It is only the heads that corrode, you would think it was a no brainer.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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When you flush, does it get hot enough to open the tstat? else you are just flushing the manifolds.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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The engine is normally warm because we flush within 15 minutes after leaving the lake. Then we flush for 5-10 minutes. The engine should be at normal running temperature by then.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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I suspect that is insufficient
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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How so?
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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The tstat is only going to crack open if at all, because there is no load on the engine.
The little fresh water that does go in the block and heads does not positively displace the salinated water, it dilutes it, because it is still circulating. It would take quite a while for the salt to leave the building. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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JR_VIC
Senior Member Joined: June-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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One thing to consider is contacting cam research in Colorado. I just bought a new set of aluminum AFR heads from them and even though I am in fresh water (not brackish) I opted for a special coating they apply to the inner water jackets to protect the aluminum from corrosion. It costs about $200 for V-8 small block heads. I would give them a call. Hope that helps...
Thanks! |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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you need too find a cast set of vortechs with it looks like .202 intakes and .160 exhausts,
if you match this with the correct chambers they should be identical in preformance, by bolting on aluminum heads doesnt mean the engine is a high performance engine, it means it is lighter. I'm 99% sure you can find identical heads in cast such as the Vortech heads. if you do the computor will not sense cast or aluminum |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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87BFN owner
Grand Poobah Joined: August-25-2006 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 2194 |
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leo what makes your dad think rednecks can not propperly make mods to a motor without messing it up?
Some of the best engine builder are rednecks, don't take this post serios just giving you some crap.. I would go with another set of alums to make your dad happy and have cam research coat them for you. |
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nuttyskier2002
Gold Member Joined: September-28-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 669 |
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Eric, there is something to consider here about aluminum vs cast iron. Aluminum heads dissipate head more efficiently as well as heat and cool more evenly than cast iron. This means that you can safely run a higher compression ratio with them (at least a whole point more). GM knows this and that's one reason why they use aluminum heads on many of their high performance engines. While it's true that his engine's computer will sense any knock and adjust timing (retard it) to eliminate it, he will lose some performance in the process due to the computer making these adjustments. That is if the Electronic Spark Control (EST) system has wide enough of an operating window. I think I'd want to check with one of GM's or PCM's engineers first before doing this. Brian |
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95 Malibu Echelon w/Mercruiser 350 Magnum Skier
Former boats: 88 Ski Centurion Tru Trac II 59 Chris Craft Capri (woody) |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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he's in a catch 22, in a perfect world i would throw another set of aluminum heads on there and be done with and in another couple throw another set on when they fail again,
But, I dont think they want to keep coughing up 1500 beans every couple years. Yes I would call a GM guy and see what the pro and cons are and what the performance loss would be if any, minimal I believe, minimal enough to go with the cast heads. one good thing about boat moters is that you have an endless supply of cool water |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Hey guys,
I just got back from looking at a project nautique in SC. Looks like this forum is starting to open up with suggestions and debate. As far as performance goes, I dont really care about losing 10-20 hp. The engine is rated at 365 hp. We never run the engine at WOT. Only wakeboarding speeds of 23mph. If anything, I would rather less hp and save on the fuel. My biggest concern is if I swap to cast iron, is that I will cause engine problems down the road. Yes, rednecks make good engines, but they only last for 500 laps. |
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wannabeSS
Senior Member Joined: March-01-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 125 |
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[QUOTE=leo0648]
My biggest concern is if I swap to cast iron, is that I will cause engine problems down the road. QUOTE]You will not cause engine trouble switching to cast iron. The only difference really is going to be a heavier head that doesnt dissipate (sp?) heat as quickly. But i dont think the difference will be noticeable with the performance nor heat. If you wanted you could have a slight port job and bigger valves to pick up a little bit of power, but you said that didnt concern you really. |
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96 Camaro SS #1157
84 Ski Nautique, fat sacks, fly high pole 06 LF Fish 125 06 LF PS3 137 |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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I dont care about the loss of power. This is a strong engine, I wouldnt even notice 10-20hp loss.
That makes sense 'Gottaski'. Would rev'in up the engine while flush make the t-stat open? |
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reidp
Platinum Member Joined: December-06-2003 Location: Mooresville, NC Status: Offline Points: 1804 |
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This horse is dead already, or maybe it was just the redneck comment that got me. While I like the idea of the cast iron heads like Eric and others said, if DAD is really set on going back to the original, then follow GottaSki's excellent advice and go with closed/fresh water cooling. PCM's alum component engines have this, and which the engine should have had to begin with, unless of course it was built or sold by a redneck.
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Ok, I am gonna call Summit tomorrow and see what they think.
Last question: Will all the bolts from the aluminum heads fit the cast iron? And will the intake work with cast iron heads? I dont see why they wouldn't if they are both vortec castings. |
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wannabeSS
Senior Member Joined: March-01-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 125 |
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They should fit, but does PCM use torque-to-yield bolts like GM does? If they do i suggest getting new arp bolts. And the manifold should fit.
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96 Camaro SS #1157
84 Ski Nautique, fat sacks, fly high pole 06 LF Fish 125 06 LF PS3 137 |
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rudderdad
Groupie Joined: April-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Sure glad that there a no rednecks named Shelby, Garlits, or Petty out there, cause that sure screw up Le Mans and Nascar youse guys. Y'know Mastercraft made there powerslot by putting a bigger prop on, and where it scratched the hull is where they built an indention, and called it the powerslot. High ho reneck away!!!!!!
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rudderdad
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rudderdad
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Sure glad that there a no rednecks named Shelby, Garlits, or Petty out there, cause that sure screw up Le Mans and Nascar youse guys. Y'know Mastercraft made there powerslot by putting a bigger prop on, and where it scratched the hull is where they built an indention, and called it the powerslot. High ho redneck away!!!!!!
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rudderdad
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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I took the heads off yesterday, and sure enough, they corroded again. A very small hole around the firing ring was letting water into the 6th cylinder.
Here are the numbers I pulled off 0-12367712 B6529-3 Zeus |
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