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Complete Stringer/Floor replacement

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    Posted: July-29-2007 at 3:07pm
Help, I bought a 1967 Mustang for a project for my son and I. New to this boat rebuilding stuff. Here are a few pics of it. I have the stringers in and the ski pylon bracing. Im looking for pics(1967 stang) if anybody has any of a complete stringer floor replacement. I want to make sure I do it right the 1st time.
On another note anybody used linex on the floor or some type of rhino lining? Thanks. BTW this site is awesome and am looking forward to posting my boat along the way as she comes alive.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seabee20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-29-2007 at 3:12pm
looks like I need some schooling how to post my pics. Sorry about that. Why are they all over the place on my posting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-29-2007 at 3:25pm
20, Between your text and posting of pictures, use the "enter" key to go to the next line otherwise the whole post will be side to side rather than top to bottom. do this between all the pictures too.

Here's a 70's stringer system. It will not be the same as your 60's hull but may give you some ideas. Also note the half round drains between the bottom of the stringers and the hull. This is a must in my opinion because you will always get water in and this allows it to drain and not get trapped.

I'm not a big fan of the Rino lining because it looks so non original but that is me!! I just feel that since you are putting in so much work fixing the boat that every effort should be made to keep it as close as possible to original.

Keep the pictures comming!! You can go back in to your post and "enter" between the pictures and then update and it will change.



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77 Tique

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here is my current project
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-29-2007 at 3:57pm
I am going the rhino lining route. I hate carpet because it holds moisture, which will eventually finds its way back into the stringers/floor. I am using a stuff called grizzly grip. $70/gallon and they have like 30 colors to choose from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-29-2007 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by leo0648 leo0648 wrote:

I am going the rhino lining route. I hate carpet because it holds moisture, which will eventually finds its way back into the stringers/floor.


A 67 didn't have carpet.

20, Forgot to mention to always use epoxy rather than polyester resin for structural glass work especially around wood. Polyester is hygroscopic and epoxy is not so with polyester water will still get to the "encapsulated" wood and it will rot.


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77 Tique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-29-2007 at 6:21pm
Pete i love it when you use those DOLLAR words........boat dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seabee20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2007 at 1:55am
Thank you for the responses. I did buy the polyester but a buddy of mine said get rid of it and use the expoxy. So I'm dialed in there. Do I need to add ribs all the way out to the sides? I was planning on using 5/8 ply and then 6" or so blocks on the sides to screw into. And than linex,rhino or grizzley grip. Also I saw that the Boat dr used noodles for flotation. Will that keep me afloat? Sure looks like a easy install. 8122 I already had your pics downloaded, thanks. Do ya'll think I got a good deal? ($500) bucks its got a 302(215HP)motor. Original seats I think. Is the trailer the original? How about the Windshield?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 Mustang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2007 at 2:33am
SeeBee,

I'm no expert, although many of the guys on this site are so if I am wrong I know I will be corrected, but I would say the trailer looks period correct.

No way on the windshield. I have a 69 mustang and a 78 SkiTique, your windshield looks like the one on my Tique.

Good luck with your project. Everyone here is very helpful and very generous with their knowledge, and most of these guys know their stuff. The rest of us (like me!) learn a lot.

Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2007 at 2:58am
I am using Grizzly Grip because of price and color options. The stuff is tought and you can roll it on.

I am using both pool noodles and 2 part polyurethane foam (go to uscomposites.com for a list of foam kits). It seems to be working really well. The floor is rock solid.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2007 at 3:10am
Great job on the stringers, everybody should do one,I will not do #2...
The only thing I would have done different on your boat is to remove the 'Kick Plate' at the front,and extend the floor althe way forward.I did this on my '64 to gain a little more floor/storage.
On my post Boat dr vs 1964 Amer skier @general Disc. you will see pics of my floor with a Teak ski locker door forward of the front seats. Best idea on the whole rebuild.4 life jackets and a throwable will fit under the floor,my drain plug is there too..............boat dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2007 at 8:31am
20, 69 is correct that the trailer is original but the windshield isn't. 500 was a good deal!
I do recomend some secondary stringers. They are the ones on the outsides of the exhausts. I would also add some "ribs" connecting the stringers. The edges of the floor at the hull sides don't need much because that whole seam is usually glassed. Some blocks out there just to keep the ply level when you lay it isn't a bad idea. Foaming is optional! There are two thoughts on this but I'm not one to refoam. I feel it traps more water that it's worth. It is not a structural element of the hull as some feel and the only drawback is a slightly louder hull due to no sound absorbtion. The picture I posted of the stringers is my 77 Tique. It was not refoamed and I have no problems. However,foam must be present under the decks for floatation. It doesn't take much and you can calculate the required amount to keep your boat floating!

I see that you figured out the posting problem! There isn't really a correct way of doing it but from top to bottom it sure makes things easier to read.

Keep going and the pictures coming.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-25-2007 at 11:46pm
Pete, I removed the floor from my Mustang and have started removing the foam as much of it is wet. Fortunately, the stringers appear sound. The secondary stringers appear sound except for about a 10" section just behind the engine on the port side. I plan on bolting two peices of wood to join this section together after I cut the rotting section out. A few peices of the strapping that goes perpendicular to the stringers needs replacement, but most of it is sound.

My goal for the fall is to get the foam out and allow to boat to dry out really well over the winter. I am hoping that this will be a relatively easy project, and I will have the floor back in early, so I can start working on the mechanics.

I'll have plenty of questions come spring, but right now I'm planning on not installing any foam and not worrying about lack of flotation. I'm also not planning on glassing the floor in, so I will need to provide support for the strapping where it meets the sides of the hull. Does it make sense to leave the foam under the strapping? Will it dry out?

I'm planning on using a thin marine carpet. I would prefer something original, like the rubber matting they used to use, but is this available?







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2007 at 7:48am
Bruce, I'd get all the foam out as long as I was down there. I don't feel the foam will dry out very quickly if at all.

I after years of searching in the normal places for the floor covering used in the late 60's and a few years into the 70's I found it. It is commercial vinyl wall covering. I have seen several different patterns that CC used and have not found the basket weave yet. Close but not exact. I would not waste your time looking at samples on line because they are not a true representation of the real thing. Find a wall covering store and go look at the samples.

Make sure your stringers are good before you cover them up!! There is lots of glass covering them back in the early days so their soundness can be deceiving. I think I would drill some holes through the glass near the hull.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2007 at 10:59am
Good idea on the holes. I can drill them so that they will become drain holes.

Sounds like you don't worry about lack of flotation.

I'm thinking that this boat will remain original except that it will have dark grey carpet going right up the sides of the hull. The floor covering I pulled out of it was like wall paper and was stapled down. It didn't look to durable and seemed to trap water underneath it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2007 at 2:53pm
Bruce, If you find the stringers in good condition, you will want to epoxy resin (with filler) plug the holes you drill to inspect the stringer condition. A small glass patch won't hurt ether.

Extra flotation was put in my Tique under the decks and gunnels. Remember that 1 cu. ft. of foam will displace about 60lbs so it doesn't take as much as you may think.

Did you catch my comment on the original floor covering being commercial vinyl wall covering? It is thin but you have to consider how many years of service it provided! Some "marine" carpeting isn't giving that life. The ply floor can be coated with epoxy resin for added moisture resistence.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2007 at 4:18pm
Pete, I did catch what you said about the wall covering. I guess if it was glued down it wouldn't hold water. The boat had that in it, but it was stapled down and was really wet between it and the plywood.

I've got all winter to figure out the floor. My goal for the next few weeks before it gets too cold is to get all of the foam out,and inspect the stringers, so I can plan.

I'll take pics this weekend and post Monday.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1973Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-30-2007 at 12:57am
I just pulled up the vinyl wrapped plywood (mostly rotten junk now) and found some small crackage in the fiberglass covering the subdeck, if that's what it's called. I have found one weak spot in the sub-deck near the helm and I suspect the encapsulated plywood there has some rot. Since most of the sub-deck is in good shape, can I work some epoxy resin into the small cracks to seam 'em up? I'm going to chip up the fiberglass in the weak spot to see exactly what's going on there.
Here's a pic of the cracks...


And more shots of what I'm calling the sub-deck...




If it doesn't need work, I can't afford it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-30-2007 at 10:07am
Clint, Take a look at this picture of the stringer/frames. This will give you a idea of what is under what you are referring to the sub deck. (more wood and foam) If the stringers, floor and foam are original and you have cracks in the fiberglass then I guarantee that you have a problem. It does look like no work has ever been done. You must remove everything down to the hull and start over, Lots of people have done it and the job isn't that bad. You can find some good threads by using the search feature here plus we all are here to help. Covering up the cracks with epoxy will do nothing but seal in water that has already soaked in the wood and rotted it. I highly recommend doing some exploring. Remove some random spots in the fiberglass covering of the wood. A small hole saw works great. Open up the areas between the main stringers and the chines and look for wet foam. Some people have reported removing close to 400 lbs.




Clint, Put on your reading glasses on click on this link:stringer, floor and foam replacement
How's the engine?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-30-2007 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

You must remove everything down to the hull and start over

Thats a bit premature, Pete!

I agree that if there is a soft spot in the floor (especially in the area of the front seats) then there is rot hiding underneath. Its too late to inject epoxy. You'll have to cut the floor open to see how far the rot has spread. Its possible that you'll need a full stringer/foam/floor replacement, but not a guarantee. It may only need a partial repair.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-30-2007 at 5:21pm
Clint, Tim (TRbenj) is absolutely correct. I should have proof read my post. What I meant to say that IF you find any rot you should remove everything down to the hull but do some exploring FIRST. I personally would not take any chances that there are any rot spores left under the old fiberglass. As long as you are tearing into it I am recommending doing the whole stringer system. I would hate for you to get another bad spot 2 years from now and have to dig it all out again. How far you want to tear into it is your decision.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-30-2007 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


I after years of searching in the normal places for the floor covering used in the late 60's and a few years into the 70's I found it. It is commercial vinyl wall covering.

My '68 had a seperate fiberglass pan for the floor,but was in real bad shape.I got rid of it but now wish I still had it to use as a mold to make a new one.It had very small diamond shaped patern in it to make it non skid.It also had a raised outer edge to hold the side panels in and to keep water from getting under it and the glassed over foam.The motor area was flat so water could get to the bilge.
69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-01-2007 at 7:38am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


I after years of searching in the normal places for the floor covering used in the late 60's and a few years into the 70's I found it. It is commercial vinyl wall covering.

My '68 had a seperate fiberglass pan for the floor,but was in real bad shape.I got rid of it but now wish I still had it to use as a mold to make a new one.It had very small diamond shaped patern in it to make it non skid.It also had a raised outer edge to hold the side panels in and to keep water from getting under it and the glassed over foam.The motor area was flat so water could get to the bilge.


Reid would know the year it changed but yes, the early Mustangs had the fiberglass floor. I think 68 was the last glass floor and then the vinyl on ply. It's funny how a good idea comes back. You see lots of high end boats with the fiberglass floors and snap on carpet now.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1973Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-02-2007 at 1:42am
Guys, thanks for the excellent advice. I spent some time Sunday evening chipping up some of that sub-deck fiberglass and found wet foam under the big cracks and dry foam under the smaller ones which seem to be just surface cracks after closer inspection. I'm thinking I will cut the fiberglass around the larger cracks and keep cutting until I am well into dry foam or plywood. What's the best method to cut the fiberglass? Maybe one of those battery powered Dewalt 4" circular saws?
I really appreciate the help on this, the thread helped me a bunch even before I started digging around; I knew what was under there!
Also; I found what appears to be a close match to the vinyl on Overton's; surely it's not that simple.
Here's shot of how the rest of my day went. This is a truck from the FD I belong to after a small accident. No injuries thanks to God's grace and seat belts.
If it doesn't need work, I can't afford it!
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73, What happened with the truck? Yes, I'm glad to here that no one got hurt.

I find that a friction cut-off blade in a electric or air powered die grinder works great. You can cut into and close to the hull with it as well. For the ultimate close quarter work,(corners) A Fein Multi-master is the tool! The hole saw can be used to check the wood at low points.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1973Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2007 at 12:19am
pbrain;
The brakes failed after a long, steep descent down one of our mountain roads, that's me in the street looking at marks in the road way behind the guys in uniform. He came down the hill where I'm looking and had to turn to avoid a car in the intersection and over she went. The truck's a total loss (I hope), up for replacement anyway.

I thought about a cut-off wheel for cutting that 'glass, I have an air-powered one so I'll give that a try. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reidp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-03-2007 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


I after years of searching in the normal places for the floor covering used in the late 60's and a few years into the 70's I found it. It is commercial vinyl wall covering.

My '68 had a seperate fiberglass pan for the floor,but was in real bad shape.I got rid of it but now wish I still had it to use as a mold to make a new one.It had very small diamond shaped patern in it to make it non skid.It also had a raised outer edge to hold the side panels in and to keep water from getting under it and the glassed over foam.The motor area was flat so water could get to the bilge.


Reid would know the year it changed but yes, the early Mustangs had the fiberglass floor. I think 68 was the last glass floor and then the vinyl on ply. It's funny how a good idea comes back. You see lots of high end boats with the fiberglass floors and snap on carpet now.


If it's of any interest or value, I do know first hand that 68s thru 70s had the fiberglass floor plan. I don't know why it wasn't continued as it sure didn't rot, and there was no wood in the sub-floor below, just glass over the beloved foam. It didn't/doesn't provide a good bite for the seats to screw into and subsequently the glass and foam below was quickly and easily compromised. But what a durable finish.
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