Polishing Hull: Steps and Materials?? |
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Posted: January-13-2008 at 12:31pm |
I just got a '76 Southwind 18. Its in pretty good shape and is sitting in the garage begging me to start bringing the hull shine back to life. I need to do something to it to save time in the spring. I don't think it will take too much to bring the shine back. Questions:
1. What steps should I follow without going completely overboard on it (just a good basic shine)? - Wash hull - Rubbing compound with electric buffer? - Wet sand? - Wax 2. What materials will I need, and where is the best place to get them in January? Car parts stores, West Marine, etc? 3. My garage is not heated, so I am not sure if I can complete everything until it warms up some. Thanks guys! Just chomping at the bit to get at it, and wanted to get a summary of the key steps. I know this forum is filled with good info, but, my head was spinning after reading through all the steps, products, methods, etc. I am just trying to summarize the key steps and materials. Thanks! Dave |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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wet sanding is a last ditch effort, do a test spot with some compound first, i use 3m compound, it is a white paste and seems to work the quickest, how cold is it in your garage? the compunds and buffing pads rely on heat also when buffing, alot of guys clean thier pads often...and you end up using twice the compound. do you have any local bodyshop supply stores in your area? buy local cause the catalogers (WEST) (land n sea) will get you. Napa will also carry these supply's.
when tackling this always go to a proffesional body shop supply house, these products are for proffesional use and are designed to get the job done |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Ive gone into detail about the process Ive used before, but Ill summarize if it helps.
1. a. wash b. wetsand (if necessary) c. compound (if necessary) d. polish e. wax 2. I like 3M products. The best prices Ive found are at: http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/ |
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Thanks guys....thats exactly what I was looking for. I know the information is all on the forum, I was just having trouble putting it all together in steps with the right materials.
TRBenj: I think I will skip wet sanding to start with. What is the best 3M compound(s) to use, and what polish and wax do you like for the older hulls that may need a little extra to get them to pop? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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The trick is figuring out how aggressive you need to be in order to restore gel. If its just shine youre looking for (no oxidation or color fading), a good polish might do the trick. Test a small area and work back (increasing aggressiveness) and see what gets you results. I used the following products after wetsanding:
3M Super Duty Compound (2x) 3M Imperial Microfinishing Compound (1x) 3M Finesse-It II Finishing Material (2x) Collinite 925 Fiberglass Wax (by hand) Each product was able to remove the scratches left by the previous round of buffing. The Finesse-It II is a polish. You'll want to use a good rotary buffer and match each product up with the right of pad to see the best results. |
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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Tim: The way I add it up it took 6 times around the boat. To much work for my old arms. I'd have no strenght left for footin'. Interested in a nice Florida vacation? You gotta be cold and bored by now. Me and mrsjbear will put you up and I'll buy the beer. You can see some local attractions and I will get you some great footing sessions with a guy I know here who is pretty good. All you gotta do in return is do my boat while I'm at work.
john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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John, sounds like a good deal to me- though I gotta tell you, it may be cheaper for you to do it yourself! Its definitely cold up here, as we're getting another 12" of snow today. Ive got a few projects keeping me busy for now- but ask me again in another month and I may change my mind!
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Tim, you're the 1st person I've run into that has even heard of Collinites. That's what I use, the liquid cleaner and the fiberglass paste wax. They made the Mustang look really good, although wet sanding or compounding would probably make it look close to new.
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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we use a foam pad when it gets down to the polish
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Bruce, a bunch of guys on one of the Whaler forums swear by the stuff- so I decided to give it a shot. The 925 is a liquid, and its extremely easy to put on and take off. The paste is supposed to be even more durable, but not quite as easy to apply- but I have to say Ive been extremely impressed with the look and longetivity of the 925. I went out and bought some Insulator wax to use on my truck. Everything Ive read says Collinite products are top notch. Ive actually found it at NAPA now, which is great. If youre happy with the color on the Mustang, theres probably no need to wetsand. Some time spent with a good polish (or potentially compound) will get it shined right up. The wax is just for protection- the polish will restore the gel. |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Tim, I've used the 925 and it shines just as good, but it is not as durable. It is much easier to apply. The paste requires much more effort and a bit of a knack. Doesn't matter though if your boat is on a trailer and you can wax it every few weeks or even every week. We moor our boats all summer, taking them out midway for waxing and oil changes, so I like the paste. (Other than the Mustang, I haven't waxed a boat in about 4 years. David has become the wax man. Tom is the interior man. I just maintain the engine. This has worked out pretty good for me)
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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That doesnt surprise me- seems consistent with what Ive read. The coat of 925 I put on before GL was still beading up very nicely when I pulled the boat in October, though. The boat spends most of its time on a lift, so 1-2x a season is plenty durable for me!
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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The 925 obviously works well because I was expecting you to tell me you wax your boat at least weekly.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Ha- not quite! I always have high hopes for getting things done during the summer- but if the boats in the water, it seems I can always find something better to do than work on it! |
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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TRBenj suggested the following:
3M Super Duty Compound (2x) 3M Imperial Microfinishing Compound (1x) 3M Finesse-It II Finishing Material (2x) Collinite 925 Fiberglass Wax (by hand) I stopped at a local parts store today to see if they had the 3M products. They did. Not sure if they had the Imperial Microfinishing compound though. I don' remember seeing it, but, it may have been there. I think they sides of the hull will be just fine with the above products. The top of the deck....tbd?? May need to wet sand. Question: Can I use these products with an electric buffer in a cold, unheated garage, or should it be 50-60 Degrees, as the auto parts guys told me. With so much downtime this winter, I want to get on it and get some before and after pictures posted. Dave |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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The only product I can think of that will be temperature dependant would be wax- and only conventional/carnuba waxes at that (synthetics dont care). The heat created between the gel and pad when its cutting will make the ambient temp unimportant. I just buffed out my fiberglass roof box a week ago with no issues.
Youre going to have a hard time finding those products locally. The only place that may carry them would be West Marine ($$$) or an autobody shop. Youll save a lot of money (~50%) buying from the link I posted. |
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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TRB....my post was misleading above. The local parts store I stopped at DID have the 3M products you mentioned. I think a big bottle of the Super Duty Compound was around $24 or so. I will have to do closer comparisons.
I am glad to hear they are not temperature dependant. I want to get at it ASAP. I worked on the garage all weekend on it. I drained three gallons of oil/water out of the oil pan. Fresh oil in, and drained again. Did a compression check. All cylinders between 100-125. It sounds MEAN! |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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David you have to get the rest of the family out in the garage working on this.After their out there for awhile,they will complain it's too cold,you hit them up for a garage heater telling the Mrs it will help her to have a warm car to go to work in
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Gary;
That parts store you previously mentioned in McHenry is where I found the 3M products today. No, the family wasn't in the garage, but, both MY boat, and MY truck are, and thats not making the wife happy. The nagging to get the boat out hasn't started full force yet, but, I can tell its not far away. I am thinking of storing the truck instead of the boat so I can keep working on the boat over the winter. Do you know of places that are renting garage space for the next several months in the Algonquin/Cary areas? |
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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Tim: Might be cheaper..but not as much fun! You just let me know if you wanna warm up! Then come on down. Gotta bring your footin' stuff so me and Eddie can take you out.
john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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No I don't David,never had to look.I'm lucky my Dad leaves for the winter and I store my MG and my CC in his garage.
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tbeard
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2012 Location: Fort Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 379 |
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Removed my decals and I have the "Ghost Gelcoat" under the old decals. To remove these how agressige do I need to start with paper? 400...800 and then step up to 1000, 1200, 1500? For the rest of the Gel coat I can probably start with 800. Then i will be following Pete,s process.
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Thanks.......Tom
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Tom,
On my 77 Tique, I was never able to get rid of the ghosting and actually sanded to the point of seeing glass. The PO had named the boat with vinyl decals on the transom so I ended up having to regel the transom. On the hull sides, I had to have original size "since" decals reproduced to cover the ghosting up. |
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scottb7
Newbie Joined: September-15-2012 Location: Burnsville MN Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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what would be difference between using these 2 products? i have some light swirl marks i want to take out. ps. i am doing all by hand, both of which say can be done?
http://www.autogeek.net/3m-rubbing-compound.html http://www.autogeek.net/3m-scratch-remover.html |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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By hand? Yes, it can be done BUT, be prepared for lots of hard work. Invest in a buffer. Proper link #1 for the convenience of all Proper link #2 for the convenience of all |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Gelcoat is tough stuff,can't go wrong with Tim's recomendations,but in your case you might just start with 1000 or 1200 and a cheap Harbor Freight buffer
wetsand 800, 1000, 1200 3M Super Duty Compound on a 1" pile wool pad, 2x 3M Perfect-It II Compound on a 1.5" pile wool pad, 1x 3M Finesse-It II Finishing Material (this is a polish) on a wool/acrylic blend polishing pad, 2x Collinites 925 wax, by hand with a microfiber cloth I get all my 3M stuff and Lake Country pads from Smart Shoppers. They have the best prices that Ive found and carry everything you'll need, save for the wax (available at Napa or ebay). You definitely need a good rotary polisher for this stuff. With your fleet Id invest in a Dewalt 849 or the Milwaukee equivalent. If you want more info (part numbers, etc), let me know. This process has worked wonders for every boat Ive used it on. |
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rogier
Groupie Joined: September-01-2008 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 77 |
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Agree with Eric, Wet sanding is the thing you do only on the spots that stay ugly after polishing. Also agree with most of the steps posted above. Don't forget to use a finishing wax to close the polished gel coat and protect it from deterioration. Compound: Do not confuse cars and boats when polishing. Polyester, Vnylester, etc will NOT react the same way to compounds. 3M would be the product to use, especially when you are a novice to polishing. The 3M cutting paste has a feature that it will burn the rubbing parts when you use it incorrectly (at least here in Europe). This may be annoying for the experienced polisher that wants to rub out a mould, but for a novice this is great, because it will prevent damaging your boats gel coat. Also, you can reactivate and cool the compound with water. What I do with 3M is to keep a plant sprinkler at hand to wet things a bit from time to time if I want to cut corners and run at higher RPM. Tools: As a first time polisher, use a wafer style pad for the first 'cutting' runs that you make. This will prevent holograms and thus reduces the number of times you have to polish the boat. It will also prevent you from creating hot spots and will help you keep a consistent result. I use a woollen pad only for the final run for a show&shine result. Method: Do not press on the polishing machine or run it at high RPM. This will create heat and that is never good for polishing. Let the machine and compound do the work for you. |
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80SN Barnfind
Senior Member Joined: December-13-2010 Location: Niagara River Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Wet sand if needed, Super duty & Finesse it with a Makita wheel.
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Knowledge comes by taking things apart: analysis. But wisdom comes by putting things together.
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tbeard
Senior Member Joined: April-26-2012 Location: Fort Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 379 |
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What is a Wafer style Pad? Did a search and got nothing. I do like the concept of reducing the number of times you have to polish a boat.
For wet sanding using 800, 1000, 1200 by hand what type of blocks are recomended? I see the Soft flexable blocks, the Roller Guard, and several others designed for wet sanding. Sizes range from 2 1/2 X 5 inchs and up. What about the tight curved surfaces any special blocks for these areas? Is there a preferance? |
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Thanks.......Tom
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Only block the rougher grits (~600 and below)... and be really careful about complex curves. Finer grits, do by hand.
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